Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGThe Age of Decadence (Moderator: Vahhabyte)Update from Vince, 16 Apr
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Vince
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« on: April 16, 2009, 09:28:18 AM »

Always remember the 80/20 rule; 80% of development time is spent on the last 20% of the project.  The game has been mostly done for a while, but ironing out the bugs and making the game playable, or better yet marketable, usually takes a lot more time and effort than just making the game.  It could have been released years back, but it would have sucked.  They'd done 80% of the project then; they're now doing the last 20%, which will take a while and won't show much obvious progress.  This is why some patience is required.  So I think it's time to lock this thread.  Or maybe sticky it with an edited title of "It will be done when it is done".
Pretty much.

Here is what we've been doing for the last few weeks.

Ranged:

- enemies advance too fast, ranged is basically melee with fancy weapons -> doubled movement cost
- ranged is useless against heavy shields -> heads are no longer protected by shields (but it's a very hard aimed shot), decrease vsRanged bonuses, give AP ammo 30% chance to ignore shields
- ranged penalties (accuracy loss over distance) are too harsh; the life of a ranger is hard enough as it is -> let's remove penalties completely and see what happens
- holy shit! rangers pwn everything in sight! retreat -> new penalty curve: there are small penalties for blank shots and for >80% of the range (each ranged weapon has a range) -> seems to work very well

Aimed Attacks and Criticals

- aimed attacks are useless (i.e. other attacks are clearly better) -> changed cost and special effects
- special effects happen rarely; either no effect or insta-kill (CS' passive trait kicking in and overriding special effects) - removed insta-kill, changed formulas
- works perfectly, aimed attacks are da bomb, who needs other attacks -> changed formulas
- high CS against light armored opponents = criticals on every hit -> changed CS passive trait to vsCriticals, tweak the formulas
- very low Criticals with AP ammo, high Criticals with regular ammo -> changed formula from (damage x2 - DR) to (damage-DR) x2

Spears:

Too powerful -> now can't use long spears up close and personal, must step back
That whole coming and going business with rangers and spearmen is getting out of hand -> added opportunity attacks
Etc.

It takes awhile to test, get feedback, discuss options, implement one, test, tweak, test, check how one change affects everything else, tweak, check, etc. Every day we have a new build to work with. It's a lot of work and it would be awesome if you bastards were doing the testing, but I don't want to give you an unfinished product and I don't want to see a bunch of "feature X sucks/useless/doesn't work well" threads once the demo is released.

The game is real. The demo is real. It's a-coming. Your patience is appreciated. For realz, yo.


What does that tell you? What it tells me is that Iron Tower Suckios has begun burning through the goodwill they have accumulated and are starting to piss people off. As it is plain to see, I'm not the only one.
When you stop being funny and amusing, I'll ban you. Just so you know.
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erbgor
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 10:06:20 AM »

Always remember the 80/20 rule; 80% of development time is spent on the last 20% of the project.  The game has been mostly done for a while, but ironing out the bugs and making the game playable, or better yet marketable, usually takes a lot more time and effort than just making the game.  It could have been released years back, but it would have sucked.  They'd done 80% of the project then; they're now doing the last 20%, which will take a while and won't show much obvious progress.  This is why some patience is required.  So I think it's time to lock this thread.  Or maybe sticky it with an edited title of "It will be done when it is done".
Pretty much.

Here is what we've been doing for the last few weeks.

Ranged:

- enemies advance too fast, ranged is basically melee with fancy weapons -> doubled movement cost
- ranged is useless against heavy shields -> heads are no longer protected by shields (but it's a very hard aimed shot), decrease vsRanged bonuses, give AP ammo 30% chance to ignore shields
- ranged penalties (accuracy loss over distance) are too harsh; the life of a ranger is hard enough as it is -> let's remove penalties completely and see what happens
- holy shit! rangers pwn everything in sight! retreat -> new penalty curve: there are small penalties for blank shots and for >80% of the range (each ranged weapon has a range) -> seems to work very well

Aimed Attacks and Criticals

- aimed attacks are useless (i.e. other attacks are clearly better) -> changed cost and special effects
- special effects happen rarely; either no effect or insta-kill (CS' passive trait kicking in and overriding special effects) - removed insta-kill, changed formulas
- works perfectly, aimed attacks are da bomb, who needs other attacks -> changed formulas
- high CS against light armored opponents = criticals on every hit -> changed CS passive trait to vsCriticals, tweak the formulas
- very low Criticals with AP ammo, high Criticals with regular ammo -> changed formula from (damage x2 - DR) to (damage-DR) x2

Spears:

Too powerful -> now can't use long spears up close and personal, must step back
That whole coming and going business with rangers and spearmen is getting out of hand -> added opportunity attacks
Etc.

It takes awhile to test, get feedback, discuss options, implement one, test, tweak, test, check how one change affects everything else, tweak, check, etc. Every day we have a new build to work with. It's a lot of work and it would be awesome if you bastards were doing the testing, but I don't want to give you an unfinished product and I don't want to see a bunch of "feature X sucks/useless/doesn't work well" threads once the demo is released.

The game is real. The demo is real. It's a-coming. Your patience is appreciated. For realz, yo.


What does that tell you? What it tells me is that Iron Tower Suckios has begun burning through the goodwill they have accumulated and are starting to piss people off. As it is plain to see, I'm not the only one.
When you stop being funny and amusing, I'll ban you. Just so you know.


Sounds great. I am aware that balancing and tweaking a reasonably complex game takes a long fucking time. There is a reason Ja2 was delayed and still very buggy when it was released.

I can wait.
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Scott
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 10:56:07 AM »

- ranged is useless against heavy shields -> heads are no longer protected by shields (but it's a very hard aimed shot), decrease vsRanged bonuses, give AP ammo 30% chance to ignore shields
Brilliant!  I don't remember that being suggested.
Quote
-> new penalty curve: there are small penalties for blank shots and for >80% of the range (each ranged weapon has a range) -> seems to work very well
Small penalties for blank shots?  Personally disagree.  Sounds too much like your Diablo-style archer who never puts down her bow.  Imagine you have a club and the guy standing in front of you is trying to draw a longbow, or reload a crossbow.  Not only would you get an easy hit, you would foul his shot every time.  Why not just accept that your archer character is going to either have to be very fast or (more likely) have at least some skill in a melee weapon?

Quote
Too powerful -> now can't use long spears up close and personal, must step back
That whole coming and going business with rangers and spearmen is getting out of hand -> added opportunity attacks
Aha!  Agreed.  But I still think I'm going to try a spearman.  Something I've never done except in ToEE.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 12:23:06 PM by Scott » Logged

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puppyonastik
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 12:32:42 PM »

- ranged is useless against heavy shields -> heads are no longer protected by shields (but it's a very hard aimed shot), decrease vsRanged bonuses, give AP ammo 30% chance to ignore shields

What happens if legs are not protected by shields? As far as I know, except for tower shields, most, if not all of the leg is exposed. With tower shields, anything slightly below the knee is exposed unless the user is crouching. It would still be a difficult shot, but it would give the ranged users a second option.

Anyways, thanks for keeping at it. Please take all the time you need to get everything polished up. I think there are a lot of people here willing to help you out if it's needed as well.
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MaximB
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 02:42:46 PM »

Reminds me of the problem  planewalker games had with their TBH game :
http://www.planewalkergames.com/content/view/113/1/
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VonVentrue
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 03:55:54 PM »

(...)
- ranged penalties (accuracy loss over distance) are too harsh; the life of a ranger is hard enough as it is -> let's remove penalties completely and see what happens
- holy shit! rangers pwn everything in sight! retreat -> new penalty curve: there are small penalties for blank shots and for >80% of the range (each ranged weapon has a range) -> seems to work very well

lol
Sounds promising, thanks for the insight. You sure like to tease us.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 03:59:00 PM by VonVentrue » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 05:35:21 PM »

I'm not teasing, just trying to explain what we are working on and why the demo of an "almost ready" game hasn't been released yet.
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beans
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 05:56:33 PM »

I'm not teasing, just trying to explain what we are working on and why the demo of an "almost ready" game hasn't been released yet.
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Jedi_Learner
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 06:03:57 PM »

So we can expect the combat demo at the end of this month? Or perhaps May? I'd like to update my notes.
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KillerAnt
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 06:19:10 PM »

80/20 rule? Can you put that in %?

80% of work time to finish 20% of the job ?I believe your are telling the truth, developers must be breed of their own! I wish I never end up it your position...

Keep up the godly work my friends!

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« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 06:24:06 PM by KillerAnt » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 06:50:46 PM »

I'm tempted to say "end of the month", but it depends on the playtesting and new issues resulting from tweaks and changes.



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Pooperscooper
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 07:32:39 PM »

Sounds like FMF already.
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Vince
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 08:02:45 PM »

Speaking of FMF:
http://www.fanmadefallout.com/

Good read. Most things he's talking about are very easy to understand and relate to. For example, keeping the team small (which was an intuitive decision) is probably one of the main reasons why we've managed to get this far.

Dealing with a few people, each of whom is fully responsible for his area, is a lot easier.



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almondblight
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 11:30:09 PM »

Vince,

Do you have a small beta team?  Something like ~10 people or so you trust that you can beta test with?  Or is it all mostly those working on the game who are doing the testing now?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 05:37:19 AM by almondblight » Logged
VonVentrue
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 04:28:28 AM »

Speaking of FMF:
http://www.fanmadefallout.com/

Good read. Most things he's talking about are very easy to understand and relate to. For example, keeping the team small (which was an intuitive decision) is probably one of the main reasons why we've managed to get this far.

Dealing with a few people, each of whom is fully responsible for his area, is a lot easier.


Oh, crap... Depressing news, though this doesn't come as much of a surprise.
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