Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGColony Ship: A Post-Earth Role Playing GameSome doubt about the Combat Skills and the Equipment Slots
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Author Topic: Some doubt about the Combat Skills and the Equipment Slots  (Read 490 times)
ioci
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« on: January 27, 2019, 08:10:03 am »

About Combat Skills:
In short, I'm worried that if a hybrid combatant build would be useless in the late game.
In AOD and Wasteland 2 I always end up with 1 single Combat Skill during the playthrough, otherwise, the hit chance will be too low to worth the action points it costs. Knowing that CSG will have a learn-by-using mechanic, does it mean that if I don't stick with one weapon type would lead to a lot of miss later in the game progress?  (In AOD, I would level up some secondary weapon skill but it was because it gives a few points to my main, and I still use the main one always)
Or maybe the combat skill gaining won't give a fixed hit chance bonus but rather some side effect? I'm imagining less AP cost for reloading, unlock special tactical options or lower the THC penalty/AP cost on burst.


About Equipment Slots:
I enjoy a lot how AOD presents the belt slot as you can place a secondary weapon on it(although I only put a dagger for the dialog CS kill and the slot serves merely like a hotkey for consumable items which was not very neat).
I understand that the AOD Equipment Slot been left behind was because it didn't perform that well, but the new one looks a little bit lack of style. It would be nice if I could still put the sidearm in the belt even it would occupy more than 1 space.

Cheers!
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Vince
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2019, 10:52:27 am »

About Combat Skills:
In short, I'm worried that if a hybrid combatant build would be useless in the late game.
In AOD and Wasteland 2 I always end up with 1 single Combat Skill during the playthrough, otherwise, the hit chance will be too low to worth the action points it costs. Knowing that CSG will have a learn-by-using mechanic, does it mean that if I don't stick with one weapon type would lead to a lot of miss later in the game progress?  (In AOD, I would level up some secondary weapon skill but it was because it gives a few points to my main, and I still use the main one always)
Or maybe the combat skill gaining won't give a fixed hit chance bonus but rather some side effect? I'm imagining less AP cost for reloading, unlock special tactical options or lower the THC penalty/AP cost on burst.
At the moment, each weapon skill rank increases THC by 10%. Passive bonuses are gained via feats, implants, and weapon properties, and we're hesitant to add them to skill ranks too.

You will be expected and encouraged to use different weapon types, if for no other reason than ammo being limited. From the front page:

"Like a pirate who carried two loaded flintlocks and a cutlass, your typical adventurer might have an energy pistol charged to fire a shot or two on special occasions, a .45 revolver, an SMG with two full magazines to get you out of tight spots fast, and an axe, for when things get really dicey."

Quote
I enjoy a lot how AOD presents the belt slot as you can place a secondary weapon on it(although I only put a dagger for the dialog CS kill and the slot serves merely like a hotkey for consumable items which was not very neat).

I understand that the AOD Equipment Slot been left behind was because it didn't perform that well, but the new one looks a little bit lack of style. It would be nice if I could still put the sidearm in the belt even it would occupy more than 1 space.
1) Style: everything you see on the last batch of screens is work in progress. At the moment we're working on the functionality rather than aesthetics. The GUI is far from done.
2) Belt slots - there are 4 belt slots that show on the main screen once you put something there. At the moment they are limited to grenades and gadgets.

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Fed
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 07:17:09 am »

"Like a pirate who carried two loaded flintlocks and a cutlass, your typical adventurer might have an energy pistol charged to fire a shot or two on special occasions, a .45 revolver, an SMG with two full magazines to get you out of tight spots fast, and an axe, for when things get really dicey."
Or



)
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ioci
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 10:01:42 am »

Thanks for the reply, Vince and Fed. Guess better wait until the early access to find out.  Salute
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Oscar
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 07:30:17 pm »

We've been testing the fights non-stop these past weeks, and we definitely use different weapon types. The game supports this in several ways:

- Base THC is higher than in AoD, as evasion progress is slower than attack.
- The graze range allows weapons to be useful even with low levels, especially with the attacks that increase it.
- Increasing weapon levels is quite fast in the first levels.

In general, I go with a rifle, pistol, melee set-up.
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"Hasta la victoria, siempre."

"Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have it?"
ioci
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 08:03:38 am »

Gracias Oscar! Salute

- Base THC is higher than in AoD, as evasion progress is slower than attack.
- The graze range allows weapons to be useful even with low levels, especially with the attacks that increase it.
Great to know! A few questions come in mind:
1) does distance affects a lot THC or graze chance?
2) is graze like the fast attack in AoD or it's possible to happen with any attacks?

- Increasing weapon levels is quite fast in the first levels.
This is quite immersive! I have to praise it! Easy to learn how to pull the trigger but hard to master. With the traditional SP mechanic, I was always mean with the SPs because they are bonded with levels and at the high level the SPs just became rarer as the time required for level up was significantly longer. I really look forward to this new mechanic, it seems to make the side skills way more accessible!

In general, I go with a rifle, pistol, melee set-up.
Suddenly it reminds me of that good old Counter-Strike, hahaha
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Oscar
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 01:05:46 pm »

1) If the enemy is inside your weapon range, there's no penalty. Then it drops 5% per tile, which makes a big difference since the effective range of pistols is around 7 while long range rifles is around 12, so that's a 25% penalty to shoot a guy that's far away. Multi-barrel weapons is even shorter.

2) Base graze is 10%, but it's modified by attack type, weapons and perks. So a snap shot or a shotgun have a bigger range, and an aimed attack might limit it to 5% max.
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Wizard1200
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 04:32:55 pm »

1) If the enemy is inside your weapon range, there's no penalty. Then it drops 5% per tile, which makes a big difference since the effective range of pistols is around 7 while long range rifles is around 12, so that's a 25% penalty to shoot a guy that's far away. Multi-barrel weapons is even shorter.

I think that a difference of 5 tiles between a short range weapon and a long range weapon is a bit too low. Long range rifles should have a weapon range of around 14 in my opinion.

Are attack of opportunities in the game? I ask, because firing a ranged weapon at a target in melee range should provoke an attack of opportunity in my opinion.

Does moving one tile cost 1 AP or 2 AP?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 04:35:48 pm by Wizard1200 » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 07:34:05 pm »

They go from 10 to 14 currently. Moving costs 1AP right now.
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ioci
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 07:35:45 pm »

1) If the enemy is inside your weapon range, there's no penalty. Then it drops 5% per tile, which makes a big difference since the effective range of pistols is around 7 while long range rifles is around 12, so that's a 25% penalty to shoot a guy that's far away. Multi-barrel weapons is even shorter.

2) Base graze is 10%, but it's modified by attack type, weapons and perks. So a snap shot or a shotgun have a bigger range, and an aimed attack might limit it to 5% max.

Thanks! You have just clear my doubts. I'm going to try a shotgun & axe build with super bunky mega heavy armor when the game is out, haha!
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Pladio
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 09:08:25 am »

1) If the enemy is inside your weapon range, there's no penalty. Then it drops 5% per tile, which makes a big difference since the effective range of pistols is around 7 while long range rifles is around 12, so that's a 25% penalty to shoot a guy that's far away. Multi-barrel weapons is even shorter.

2) Base graze is 10%, but it's modified by attack type, weapons and perks. So a snap shot or a shotgun have a bigger range, and an aimed attack might limit it to 5% max.

Do you have short range penalties ? i,e, trying to shoot through a scoped rifle within 2m is more difficult than from 20m.
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Vince
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 11:37:13 am »

Are attack of opportunities in the game? I ask, because firing a ranged weapon at a target in melee range should provoke an attack of opportunity in my opinion.
Not at the moment (still debating point-blank shooting internally based on playtesting). Right now you can't use long guns point blank at all. Smaller guns - snap shots only.

Do you have short range penalties ? i,e, trying to shoot through a scoped rifle within 2m is more difficult than from 20m.
Not at the moment. I see such penalties and bonuses as fine-tuning so we'll wait until the beta feedback start pouring in.

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Wizard1200
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 03:54:22 pm »

They go from 10 to 14 currently. Moving costs 1AP right now.

Perhaps 12 to 16 would be better, because with a low movement cost it is very easy to change the weapon range.

Not at the moment (still debating point-blank shooting internally based on playtesting). Right now you can't use long guns point blank at all. Smaller guns - snap shots only.

Attack of opportunities or a point-blank penalty (THC -10% (pistol), THC -20% (shotgun and smg) and THC -30% (scoped rifle and cannon)) would be a less rigid system.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 04:07:17 pm by Wizard1200 » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 07:41:15 pm »

Not at the moment (still debating point-blank shooting internally based on playtesting). Right now you can't use long guns point blank at all. Smaller guns - snap shots only.

Attack of opportunities or a point-blank penalty (THC -10% (pistol), THC -20% (shotgun and smg) and THC -30% (scoped rifle and cannon)) would be a less rigid system.
One of the issues is that using certain shooting stances associated with aimed attacks or pointing a rifle or any big gun at someone standing next to you will cause the barrel to go right through them. Basically, imagine someone standing close enough to punch you. Would there be enough room for you to pull out a rifle and aim (meaning not even taking your time but raising the barrel and moving it forward)?
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Wizard1200
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2019, 02:42:05 am »

One of the issues is that using certain shooting stances associated with aimed attacks or pointing a rifle or any big gun at someone standing next to you will cause the barrel to go right through them. Basically, imagine someone standing close enough to punch you. Would there be enough room for you to pull out a rifle and aim (meaning not even taking your time but raising the barrel and moving it forward)?

The last part of your post is the reason why i think attack of opportunities are the best solution, but if such a mechanic causes clipping issues it is not worth the trouble in my opinion. Your current solution is in that case probably the best option.
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