Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGColony Ship: A Post-Earth Role Playing GameTips and suggestions for development of Colony Ship
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Author Topic: Tips and suggestions for development of Colony Ship  (Read 1326 times)
fleenots
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 07:35:29 am »

Yes!!!!  Grin
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old_school_gamer
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2019, 04:16:17 am »

I'd much *much* rather not have crafting than have a crafting system that felt like an add-on, or which negated the thrill of finding new gear since crafted gear is always superior.

For that second point, I "accidentally" enjoyed AoD on the first couple of playthroughs in terms of finding cool equipment than later on when I discovered how useful crafting was, because I remember being so excited in the arena in Maadoran when I got something like a masterwork lorica segmentata. For the first few playthroughs I deliberately avoided crafting and alchemy since I always disliked the mechanic in most RPGs shifting my time and focus to traveling from point A to B all the time collecting the resources and having to learn recipes and scrolling through 14 pages worth of inventory and so forth.

Then later I discovered how incredibly useful crafting was, as though a blacksmith makes the finest soldier in the game. Then every single equipment that was dropped seemed boring and inferior to what I could craft, and just became metal scrap or trash I could sell for some money at that point. There might be a way to make crafting feel more optional without being boring to those who like it, but I really dislike that feeling when all the joy of finding equipment is sucked out and I'm looking at everything as just metal scrap because I could so easily craft something far superior.

Another mechanic that I've never been a fan of for somewhat similar reasons is set items that require many pieces to complete. First it tends to detract the sense that you can mix and match the equipment yourself to produce a desired combination, instead making it so the most powerful constumes are precise set combinations due to all the incredible bonuses they give when you complete the set. That really feels like a blow to player freedom in choosing his precise combination of gear instead of wearing a preset combination already pre-designed for him, but it also takes away a lot of the joy of finding like a cool helmet since wearing it would take away my set bonus with the set costume I'm wearing if I've completed a set, or if I haven't, then I have my stash filled with all sorts of incomplete sets and spending all sorts of in time inventory management and possibly even feeling a compulsory need to create mule characters in games with limited stash/inventory space.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 06:33:00 am by old_school_gamer » Logged
Wizard1200
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2019, 04:57:48 am »

Then later I discovered how incredibly useful crafting was, as though a blacksmith makes the finest soldier in the game. Then every single equipment that was dropped seemed boring and inferior to what I could craft, and just became metal scrap or trash I could sell for some money at that point. There might be a way to make crafting feel more optional without being boring to those who like it, but I really dislike that feeling when all the joy of finding equipment is sucked out and I'm looking at everything as just metal scrap because I could so easily craft something far superior.

This is a perfect description of my feelings when i played AoD. Perhaps it would help if the player can only craft items that he has previously found.
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old_school_gamer
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2019, 06:28:51 am »

This is a perfect description of my feelings when i played AoD. Perhaps it would help if the player can only craft items that he has previously found.

Dungeon Rats did that IIRC -- you could only get schematics of items you found unlike AoD where you could buy them all very quickly. That mitigated things a little bit but not so much for me because it's like I find a plain sword or maybe one that was crafted with some modest bonuses, and it's still metal scrap after I learn its schematic by decomposing it to metal scrap and recreating it because I can craft a superior one with superior bonuses if I reduce it to metal scrap. So still everything feels like scrap material for me to craft against. I did still get a bit excited though when I started to discovering organic insect scrap I could use to make cool armor, since that was a bit harder to come by than bronze and iron and steel and so forth.

... unless you mean you could only craft things with the precise bonuses of what you find, and not add any new ones... but then it might not make crafting very interesting except as a way to recreate former equipment you had that broke on you, or to make a copy of an existing item for a companion NPC.  Sad

I'm probably hardly the one that should be throwing out ideas for crafting and alchemy since I really dislike them, but I always imagined the biggest appeal there to the underlying concept is player creativity -- the ability to design your own stuff. At least I imagine that's the appeal of anyone crafting or concocting something in the world. Like someone who decides to build and rev up a car is not necessarily doing it to create a superior car than what's available on the market -- in many ways it could be inferior, but it's superior to them and entertains them in that they get total control over its design and can rev and tune it just the way they like in ways that's like no other car available. Yet most crafting/alchemy systems seem to fall far short of that kind of idea -- they tend to feel like you're just precisely following a recipe to get some preset item that already exists in the item database.

It's like I'm playing M&B: Warband again recently a lot and I get ideas like, "wouldn't it be cool if I could have a one-handed blunt weapon with a super long reach I can easily use from horseback along with a shield for capturing prisoners?" And of course it could be very unwieldy and slow to swing -- the game can compensate and make things like designing something with longer reach come at heavy costs to speed rating so that I'm not designing OP weapons. But that would be a weapon unlike anything I ever encountered, and crafting that would be interesting there for me (it doesn't have crafting) as a way for me to design equipment like that, so custom-tailored just the way I like it, which doesn't exist anywhere else in the entire game. That also might not detract from the joy of finding like the most epic lordly sword quite as much, since that's probably a superior weapon generally speaking and the game could make crafting weapons that powerful impossible, but my handy one-handed super long blunt weapon I designed can still be useful in many contexts for capturing prisoners, and I'd love it because it's mine and I designed it just the way I like it and there's nothing else in the game like it. The game might even let me name the resulting invention/recipe -- I might call it "Hangover Maker", and that'd be a nice little touch to make me more attached to my little design. I'd be really upset if a group of enemy brigands defeated my party, captured me as prisoner, and took my Hangover Maker and equipped it and started using it as his own weapon. I might feel the need to come up with a new and improved "Hangover Maker 2.0" and beat him over the head with it and take my original one back from him.

At least that sounds fairly entertaining to me, like a crafting system I can tolerate more. And it wouldn't make a soldier who isn't a blacksmith end up with inferior equipment, and the blacksmith might make an inferior soldier instead since he has to devote less time to combat practice to learn his craft, but those lacking the crafting skills won't have my Hangover Maker which was so carefully designed to be just the way I like it.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 07:19:03 am by old_school_gamer » Logged
Wizard1200
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« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2019, 07:01:23 am »

Dungeon Rats did that IIRC -- you could only get schematics of items you found unlike AoD where you could buy them all very quickly. That mitigated things a little bit but not so much for me because it's like I find a plain sword or maybe one that was crafted with some modest bonuses, and it's still metal scrap after I learn its schematic by decomposing it to metal scrap and recreating it because I can craft a superior one with superior bonuses if I reduce it to metal scrap. So still everything feels like scrap material for me to craft against. I did still get a bit excited though when I started to discovering organic insect scrap I could use to make cool armor, since that was a bit harder to come by than bronze and iron and steel and so forth.

... unless you mean you could only craft things with the precise bonuses of what you find, and not add any new ones... but then it might not make crafting very interesting except as a way to recreate former equipment you had that broke on you, or to make a copy of an existing item for a companion NPC.  Sad

The player removes the precise bonus from the item. This bonus can be added to any new item, but the number of times the player can do that is limited by the number of items he has found with the precise bonus.

I use D&D as an example, because i like the magic item system and i play too much Pathfinder: Kingmaker  Grin
- You find one + 1 acid dagger
- You remove the acid bonus from the dagger
- You add the acid bonus to a + 2 keen longsword > + 2 acid keen longsword
- You can not add the acid bonus to another weapon, because you have found only one weapon with the acid bonus
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 07:04:20 am by Wizard1200 » Logged
NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2019, 08:21:17 am »

You mean, like, removing a scope from a weapon and adding it to another in JA2? Treating bonuses like item/item attachments?
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Wizard1200
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2019, 11:34:01 am »

Yep, but removing the scope would destroy the weapon. This means that you can either remove the scope or the silencer from a silenced weapon with a scope.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 05:19:44 am by Wizard1200 » Logged
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