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Author Topic: CSG update #32 - The Skills & Learn by Using  (Read 2581 times)
Drirlake
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2018, 02:45:13 am »

The Screens looks great! I think it would be if the Pit was given a more "Slum=ish" look , by having some urchins and vermin scattering about, something akin to Dodge City. Of course this all depends if you have the budget to add such luxury which will really increase immersion. If not then no big deal.
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Scott
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 12:17:03 pm »

Opinion: I think it's more realistic for skills to develop on a curve rather than a linear progression.

Example: first level with pistols, +16% THC, then 12%, then 10-10-10-10 then 8%, etc.

In real life a person learns a lot more the first time he picks up a pistol and fires it than the 100th time. A parabolic progression makes sense at the other end too: how would an expert marksman make a 10% jump in accuracy at the absolute zenith of his career?

It would also help round out NPC skills. Invest in two levels in firearms and get something tangible out of it. Not much point in firing a pistol with a ~20% THC. The same logic applies to other skills too, I just like shooting stuff.

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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 02:00:44 pm »

Would also make the game easier to balance, as you have less of a skill spread to worry about. The simplest thing is just to divide the LP gain by the amount already accumulated.
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Secondly--MURDER? Merely because I had planned the duel and provoked the quarrel! Never had I heard anything so preposterous.
NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2018, 02:08:06 pm »

Also good for balance as well; consider that 10% damage reduction is twice as valuable going from 80% to 90%
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Vince
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 03:00:09 pm »

We've tried different curves when we released the first demo years ago but nothing worked as well as a simple +10 per rank. What Scott suggested gives you 8% extra early on (which is nice but won't make much difference if your THC is 20 or even 30%) then reduces your gains later on, making them less exciting which is a deadly sin in RPGs (my character doesn't get out of bed for less than 10% increase).

While I agree that you can pick up the basics very quickly in real life, I disagree that the gains toward mastery are less meaningful or impactful, as nobody would mistake a journeyman for a master. What's undeniably true though is that it takes much longer to go from journeyman to master than from novice to journeyman, which is properly represented in-game.

Anyway, if I recall correctly we spent 2 weeks trying different formulas and testing the results, which didn't get us anywhere, so I hesitate wasting 2 weeks in a similar fashion again. By 'wasting" I don't mean that the idea itself is stupid (it's not) and not worth looking into, but looking into something for 2 weeks hoping we find something interesting is quickly becoming a luxury we can't afford (when you consider all the other things we can do in 2 weeks).
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Scott
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2018, 12:07:04 pm »

Wellll... you have a point about diminishing returns being an awful game mechanic, but at the top <10% end you could reward the player with perks in addition to the straight THC increase, which is something you might be doing anyway(?)

In any case, it's an option to consider if feedback on the combat demo shows need for a change.
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2018, 12:26:50 am »

It wouldn't necessarily be diminishing if harder enemies give you more LP.
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Secondly--MURDER? Merely because I had planned the duel and provoked the quarrel! Never had I heard anything so preposterous.
Scott
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2018, 01:01:00 pm »

I think it definitely can work and there are good reasons to make it work, but of course the team can't do everything or the game would take 11 years to develop.  Grin
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2018, 07:48:56 pm »

I guess so long as each successive skill level costs more LP, it accomplishes the same thing, which it sounds like how it works from what Vince said "What's undeniably true though is that it takes much longer to go from journeyman to master than from novice to journeyman, which is properly represented in-game."
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Secondly--MURDER? Merely because I had planned the duel and provoked the quarrel! Never had I heard anything so preposterous.
Kirov89
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« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2018, 08:53:55 pm »

First of all, I think this is a non-issue as it was mentioned in the past that the system can be easily tweaked. Secondly, even the most thoughtful system will never be truly realistic. There are simply too many variables to real life to accurately reproduce in a video game. But I do agree that having it as realistic as possible is definitely nice and desirable. And, last but not least, I want to see the combat demo in action before I rush to judgement.
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souleco
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2018, 08:39:04 pm »

so instead being a chatty killer, the better option is to be a underhanded diplomat,  a man who kills everyone steals everything except those necessary for him to reach a diplomatic  quest conclusion. All in all this only give extra bonus for diplomats
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Kirov89
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2018, 04:09:46 am »

so instead being a chatty killer, the better option is to be a underhanded diplomat,  a man who kills everyone steals everything except those necessary for him to reach a diplomatic  quest conclusion. All in all this only give extra bonus for diplomats

ITS has done a pretty good job balancing fighting and talking in the past, they should do even better now as they have more experience in the matter.

My main concern, however, are grenades. Their range is huge compared to the bombs of AoD. I mean, 7x7, 10x10? If you wanted to minimize the chance of having your entire crew caught in a blast, you'd have to spend a lot of APs just maneuvering around the battlefield and likely settling for a poor shooting position while you're at it, too. Very eager to see how combat looks and feels.  

« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 04:14:12 am by Kirov89 » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2018, 12:58:42 pm »

There are no direct damage (aka explosive) grenades as nobody wants risking damaging the ship any further. Essentially, the grenades modify the battlefield's conditions and/or the stats, which is more tactical and interesting.
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NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2018, 02:16:29 pm »

There are no direct damage (aka explosive) grenades as nobody wants risking damaging the ship any further. Essentially, the grenades modify the battlefield's conditions and/or the stats, which is more tactical and interesting.
Gas (smoke/toxin/incapacitant/nerve agent) grenades should spread out over multiple turns.
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