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Author Topic: CSG update #28 - Power Armor  (Read 3927 times)
Vince
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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2018, 09:01:35 am »

It's a matter of opinion, I suppose, but if you're wearing something like this:



... then putting on a 'box with belts' on top of it would make you look like this:

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menyalin
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« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2018, 09:20:18 am »

Image is nothing, munchkinism is everything! Grin
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2018, 10:08:34 am »

I'm wondering what's to prevent an AI wearing the immune shield from rushing up and killing someone in your party every time. Of course it may be suicidal for the AI but AI usually doesn't care about that. Seems like a similar problem to when nets or bombs had 100% THC in AOD, there's no defense against that.
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Secondly--MURDER? Merely because I had planned the duel and provoked the quarrel! Never had I heard anything so preposterous.
Vince
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« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2018, 10:15:58 am »

I'm wondering what's to prevent an AI wearing the immune shield from rushing up and killing someone in your party every time. Of course it may be suicidal for the AI but AI usually doesn't care about that. Seems like a similar problem to when nets or bombs had 100% THC in AOD, there's no defense against that.
You'll see who's wearing what, so you'll be able to spot enemies wearing power armor right away and concentrate all your fire on them to drain the shield fast. Plus there are grenades that might reduce the enemy's combat abilities. He can't kill you if he can't see you in all that smoke. I'm not sure if the pulse grenades should affect this armor (they do disable the gadgets' effects) because anything you can use against the enemies, the enemies will use against you.
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2018, 10:37:36 am »

Here you say that just concentrating fire on him won't work by design:

I like the overall concept, but I'd be happier if the vest's energy field only lost power when it was interrupted (hit). I assume you can turn it on, and start the energy bleeding process, at will? I might wait until I had taken a couple of blows before I started it up if it's going to bleed out all on its own.
Turning it on and off manually sounds a bit too cumbersome. Most likely we'll turn it on the first hit. Losing power only when hit is problematic as then the players and the AI will simply focus their fire on the guy wearing the deflector armor and drain the power pretty fast.

The problem with symmetry is that player cares about losing valuable resources (like party members) while AI is there to be killed and so is generally suicidal. That can be fixed with balancing, but it's something to consider.
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Secondly--MURDER? Merely because I had planned the duel and provoked the quarrel! Never had I heard anything so preposterous.
Vince
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« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2018, 10:52:48 am »

Here you say that just concentrating fire on him won't work by design
I was talking about the deflector there, not the shield. I said that if the deflector would lose power with each hit, it can be drained pretty fast, so it will lose the power slowly but steadily (and your chance to hit will increase with every turn plus the wearer will be taking some damage from grazes). The deflector doesn't have HPs.

The shield does have HPs and they can be drained with concentrated fire but while it lasts its wearer is fully immune to damage.

The problem with symmetry is that player cares about losing valuable resources (like party members) while AI is there to be killed and so is generally suicidal. That can be fixed with balancing, but it's something to consider.
Of course.
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2018, 11:07:36 am »

OK, sorry about the confusion. You did say deflector, it was a case of my seeing what I wanted to see to confirm my assumption. Edit: I do think being able to turn the shield deflector on (but not off) manually would be good, as it would give more tactical options.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 11:34:57 am by Wrath of Dagon » Logged

Secondly--MURDER? Merely because I had planned the duel and provoked the quarrel! Never had I heard anything so preposterous.
Sparacul
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« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2018, 01:36:55 pm »

I'm not sure if the pulse grenades should affect this armor (they do disable the gadgets' effects) because anything you can use against the enemies, the enemies will use against you.
Definitely should not. It seems unlikely that someone would develop and test prototype of this high tech armor and then launch it into mass production knowing that a single grenade will reduce it to a fancy cardboard. The engineers likely designed some kind of shielding solution.

On the other hand, enemies wearing armor like that should be pretty rare or they will get old real fast.
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Ravn7
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« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2018, 01:15:24 am »

Very interesting ideas. Although "entropic field" doesn't seem to be clear enough. Unless you're interested in an audience of hardcore players only. Anyway, "Personal shield generator" and "entropic field" just below or in the description would be much better, in my opinion. In that case there could be also a few types of those shields, with entropic field-based shield being one of them.

When it comes to graphical presentation, I'd consider making some kind of modules for better shields, i.e. parts placed not only on the chest but also arms, legs, back, maybe head, etc. Word "armor" can be reserved for something else or just for higher class protective suits. I imagine Shield Weaver Armor from Horizon Zero Dawn could be one of those.

And by the way, do you know Issac Arthur's Science And Futurism channel on YT? He is a physicist, who makes really good videos. And the last one happens to be:

Generation Ships

I'd also recommend Force Fields (spoiler: new physics required for classic sci-fi force field but still a potentially inspiring video) and Interstellar Travel Challenges. I think Advanced Metamaterials is worth watching, too, because in most part it's about materials that can manipulate light and sound and their military applications.

Also, Isaac Arthur likes video games and even works/worked on the lore and story for one. I think this kind of cooperation with someone can be a very good idea, because it serves as a kind of commercial for both sides.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 08:09:50 am by Ravn7 » Logged

...flew into the dusk with its wings spread wide.
bersercker
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« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2018, 02:04:44 pm »

Assuming there is a also a possibility of including "real" power armor alongside the personal shield generators, maybe you could make it compromised somehow? To balance it against normal armor. Assuming there would be only one suit (of each type?) in the game. I've had some ideas, but dont think any of them are really good Sad

E.g the previous owner was unlucky enough to have his legs melted along with the armor(or left them on the other side of the airlock?), so now its not so powered anymore, requires a gazzilion strength to even stand up while wearing it, and provides no leg protection. Seems kinda restrictive though, only usable for small number of character builds.

Could also make one arm completely mangled(only able to use single-handed weapons), but thats probably too small of a handicap.

Both arms mangeld, only able to use melee attacks - kinda meh.

Making the chest plate compromised is probably not the best idea too, cause whats the point of power armor if it doesnt offer much protection? Would be pretty much the same as the exoskeleton mentioned above +strength but low DR. Though exoskeleton 2.0 is at least something that many character builds could use.

Perhaps neural interface is toast, can barely aim due to all the twitching. Massive to hit penalties. This might only result in character wearing it turning into a walking tank though. Not very fun. Sad

Um, reactor overheating? Get cooked if spent more than X AP per turn? Or maybe reactor needs to cool off after each two combat turns, so player needs to skip every third turn or get massive damage? Probably still would be too strong, assuming it would have a big advantage in DR compared to regular armor.

Maybe someone else has more ideas?
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dogwaffler
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« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2018, 05:34:25 pm »

Sure - Make a proper suit of powered armor a quest item, and you have to cross a lot of people who want the suit, in order to keep it. Make it so that acquiring it brings its own ending, with a short phase with a lot of fighting, from when you do get it, until the end.

Have it so it only works once, until you take it off, and wearing it makes a lot of people hostile towards you. Also make it bulky, so that there's a lot of thresholds you cannot cross, unless it's removed (this would be one way to railroad the player into the 'powered suit' ending)
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menyalin
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« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2018, 06:40:59 am »

How vulnerable to pulse greandes will be described armor? Such grenades can be a good way to balance heavy "powered" or some "energy shield" armor types. Say, if enemies haven't any, you just tear them apart or very hard to hit, but if you catched in some EM pulse, loosing bonuces and/or gaining major peanlties, then your supercool armor can easily became your coffin. But well, without such extremes probably. Personally, i think that some rare very powerful items in games are cool, if placed wisely, and i dislike the idea of intentionally making them overall weaker just to prevent other armor pointlessness - it breakes the reward feeling and expectation of "oh, such a cool thing at last!". Maybe this dilemma can be resolved not by overall weakness or situationality, but by something like Achilles' heel?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 06:42:52 am by menyalin » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2018, 07:27:40 am »

How vulnerable to pulse greandes will be described armor?
Undecided. The pulse grenades will kill all gadget effects but I'm not sure whether or not they should effect armor as it might be too much (without armor effects and without DR you're as good as dead). We'll wait for the beta test results before making the final decision.
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menyalin
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« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2018, 05:34:12 am »

How vulnerable to pulse greandes will be described armor?
Undecided. The pulse grenades will kill all gadget effects but I'm not sure whether or not they should effect armor as it might be too much (without armor effects and without DR you're as good as dead). We'll wait for the beta test results before making the final decision.
It would be incosistent if pulse disables all gadget, but actually not all (defence field generator is rather gadget than armor). Or if field can shield from strong EM pulses, then other gadget should be unaffected too, which is possible OP. Is it compatible with some lite body armor in other body slot by design?
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Vince
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« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2018, 06:53:21 am »

The pulse grenades don't disable anything on the ship. Our science-magic explanation is 'because it's shielded!'. This explanation can easily cover the power armor as well, further differentiating things that can be easily disabled (energy shield generated by a small gadget) from things that can't be (shield generated by properly 'shielded' armor).
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