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Author Topic: CSG update #28 - Power Armor  (Read 19453 times)
Vince
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« on: July 07, 2018, 11:47:32 am »

There isn't much to report at the moment (we're making good progress, the combat AI is now taking the first steps and attacking the player with extreme prejudice; the starting town is looking better and better; Joao is working non-stop on the assets which helps us tremendously, Mazin is working on randomizing portraits*, Ivan is making armor models, etc), so let's talk about the power armor and armor in general.

I dislike linear progressions in all forms, which is why we went with damage resistance vs chance to dodge (the heavier the armor, the harder to dodge attacks) in AoD, instead of generic Armor Class, whatever that is. Still, two key stats would only take you so far, which is why we added different types of damage: melee, ballistic, energy. Now you can have great ballistic armor, for example, but if you let some bersekers get into your personal space, you'll find yourself at a major disadvantage.

Anyway, the problem with power armor is it has to be awesome, which isn't bad in itself, but this awesomeness tends to make all the other armor obsolete (not to mention that *traditional* power armor should be pretty good against all types of damage, which would make the different types of damage pointless the moment you get your hands on such armor).

So we decided to explore a different direction. The power armor isn't really 'armor'. It's a device that creates a defensive field around you. As such it doesn't have any damage resistance whatsoever.


^ medium armor, rough sketch

There are 3 basic types: light, medium, heavy. You wear it like a vest. You can't wear other vests, so it's a trade off: damage resistance vs shield vs deflector. More on that in a moment. You can wear a jacket or a trenchcoat with it, so you will have some DR, just not as much as with a tactical vest.

At the moment the armor comes in two varieties:

- an energy shield that absorbs all damage until depleted (no DR). Essentially it grants you immunity for the first couple of turns, then you're on your own. If you can't use this immunity wisely and kill a couple of enemies fast, the armor isn't for you. The other energy shield (the gadget one) is weaker and doesn't absorb all damage (i.e. has DR), and can't be moved (i.e. you 'cast' it on a tile). Light, medium, heavy - 20, 40, 60 HP.

- a deflector that turns a critical into a regular strike, a regular into a graze, a graze into a miss. The deflector will lose power with every turn, so we'll need to count turns and reduce %. For example, a heavy model will start with 90% chance to deflect at turn 1, 80% at turn 2, 70% at turn 3, 60% at turn 4, and so on until the deflector is out of juice (0%). Medium will go with 90, 75, 60, 45, 30, 15, 0. Light - 90, 70, 50, 30, 10, 0

Since it's non-linear we can easily expand it and add more properties and different defensive abilities. While we're at it, here is the targeting mockup that gives you the full picture without listing all the different THC individually:


^ 5% chance to score a critical, 45% THC, extra 10% chance to graze, 40% chance to miss

*


“The Dalton brothers,” says the Chief Magistrate, shaking his head as he reviews the data. “Showing a poverty of imagination matching their actual poverty, they decided to strike out and plunder the riches of the Wasteland. By all accounts they were lucky to survive, but unlucky to return empty-handed. This is after running up a substantial debt to finance their venture, said debt causing our business community undue hardship and financial burden. Which of course must be rectified.”

“Anything else I should know?”

“Yes, there’s a note appended to the file: the Daltons petitioned the Court to provide them with means to defend themselves, on account of losing most of their belongings during their unsuccessful enterprise. They were issued an axe and two knives, so my guess is they’ll come at you hard and fast. A shotgun would be handy in this situation. “


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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2018, 01:20:19 pm »

Not going to lie I was a little disappointed by this design because I was expecting something more traditional, but I dig the idea of not having one ultimate armor that nullifies all other choices.

You should definitely change the power armor name though if you want to keep the current design. When people hear "Power Armor" they usually think about awesome full body exo-suit. I understand if you use the name as an analogy to similar endgame gear from other games but in actual gameplay, it should be named for what it actually is - powered vest/plate, integrated deflection module, I.D.M. etc.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 01:26:22 pm by Sparacul » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2018, 03:06:12 pm »

Not going to lie I was a little disappointed by this design because I was expecting something more traditional, but I dig the idea of not having one ultimate armor that nullifies all other choices.
It doesn't prevent us from doing cool-looking futuristic armor. The question here is what 'power' in power armor supposed to do. Simply increasing stats won't be a very interesting option, especially since we have the implants that do that.
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Kirov89
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2018, 04:18:48 pm »

I like your philosophy of avoiding game breaking OP items, so I have nothing to add on that front. What puzzles me though, do the stats shown represent the final combat algorithm from the game, or is that a work in progress too? 'Cause having such a good critical chance of 5% with a low THC of 45% seems a little out of place, imo.
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Vince
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2018, 04:53:17 pm »

I like your philosophy of avoiding game breaking OP items, so I have nothing to add on that front. What puzzles me though, do the stats shown represent the final combat algorithm from the game, or is that a work in progress too? 'Cause having such a good critical chance of 5% with a low THC of 45% seems a little out of place, imo.
It's a mockup but it does reflect the numbers. 

Things may change, of course, but right now your CS chance = CS skill + CS feats + CS gear + CS weapon + CS attack.

Explanation:

CS skill - 1% per rank, so if your CS skill is 10, you get 10% CS chance even if your THC is 10% - i.e. if you manage to hit the enemy, it will hurt a lot)
CS feats - Specialist (+5% CS chance), Lone Wolf (+10% Evasion, +5% CS chance; no party members, obviously), Bloodlust (+15% CS chance after killing an enemy for the remainder of the turn), etc
CS gear - a high-end eye implant will increase your CS chance
CS weapon - Less precise weapons like the blunderbuss tend to do a whole lot more damage
CS attack - some attacks actually reduce your CS chance, others increase it. Aimed: Head, for example, increases it by 10%.

Overall, it's possible to make a CS specialist who very high CS chance. As long as it's properly balanced and takes some risk and effort, we have no problems with it.

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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2018, 06:27:46 pm »

Shield could be an upgrade for high level armor too, thus giving more upgrade choices.
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2018, 08:01:14 pm »

It doesn't prevent us from doing cool-looking futuristic armor.
That is good to hear.


The question here is what 'power' in power armor supposed to do.
That really is up to you, but if you accept ideas I have a few. The futuristic power suit should have best ballistic protection in the game and to a lesser extent melee while melting under energy weapon fire. The absent classic extra str can be explained as the inhuman weight of the heavy armor plates consuming it. Concerning special abilities, it can have some exploration modules that can act as mods - the higher your tech skill the more you can have active at the time. It can be a substitute of sorts for characters who can't use many implants. It can allow you walking in open space section functioning as a combat-ready replacement of skafander, having toggled and powerful light sources to illuminate the way (combat action ability? - blind melee attacker with a flash of light once per turn, functioning as less powerful but free flashbang), some radiation protection and electro shielding, integrated key hand that allows you to open some ancient doors reserved for elite military personnel...I can continue if you need more. If your int is high enough you can attempt radical modification removing heavy armor parts and using extra lifting power tp field inhuman weapons allowing you to use very limited number of drone weapons one ranged and one melee (if the drone has any). Wielding heavy drone intended blade as a two-handed sword is awesome.

For module-armor there can be any number of effects: stealth field, trauma kit (pumping you full of meds and providing limited healing), reflex booster (the lower your health the higher the bonuses go to crit/action points or evasion), energy conversion prism (when enemy hits body with a laser weapon it consumes half of the damage and either gives you ammo for energy weapons or puts your energy weapon into overcharge giving it improved performance across the board - small bonus to acc, crit and damage).
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NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2018, 08:48:36 pm »

Multiple ways to do something (i.e. increasing stats) is always good, even if they can be stacked (power armor on top of implants, for example) as long as they have a sufficiently high cost that they close other routes.

For example, I loved how in AoD power armor wasn't strictly better than 25 lb of Sky Metal, but dependent on Lore vs Crafting investment, and using either requires a heavy commitment in limited resources (SP in this case) to achieve.
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Vince
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 04:06:29 pm »

That really is up to you, but if you accept ideas I have a few. The futuristic power suit should have best ballistic protection in the game and to a lesser extent melee while melting under energy weapon fire.
Logically, a futuristic power suit should be designed for protection against energy weapons (i.e. the most common weapon type in said future). So it would be the strongest against energy weapons while still pretty good against bullets and knives. We did consider some ceramic, heat-absorbing armor that won't be very effective against bullets but decided against it, at least for now, as it would be a departure from the traditional 'juggernaut' concept anyway.

Quote
For module-armor there can be any number of effects: stealth field, trauma kit (pumping you full of meds and providing limited healing), reflex booster (the lower your health the higher the bonuses go to crit/action points or evasion), energy conversion prism (when enemy hits body with a laser weapon it consumes half of the damage and either gives you ammo for energy weapons or puts your energy weapon into overcharge giving it improved performance across the board - small bonus to acc, crit and damage).
We're looking it strictly from the design perspective not what's possible perspective. Sure, you can design a super cool suit straight out Starship Troopers (the book), but how would it fit into the existing armor system? What you describe is the nuclear-powered swiss-army knife that would make any other armor obsolete.

In general, the implants handle stat boosts and special 'natural' abilities like regeneration and the gadgets handle special combat abilities like stealth.
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 12:16:41 am »

Logically, a futuristic power suit should be designed for protection against energy weapons (i.e. the most common weapon type in said future). So it would be the strongest against energy weapons while still pretty good against bullets and knives. We did consider some ceramic, heat-absorbing armor that won't be very effective against bullets but decided against it, at least for now, as it would be a departure from the traditional 'juggernaut' concept anyway.
Works for me. I just thought that energy weapons were never that common even in the past of the ship so it seemed to me that ballistic focus was more practical. I thought about ceramic too, it still is a pretty cool concept, I wish that you could keep it as an alternative configuration.

We're looking it strictly from the design perspective not what's possible perspective. Sure, you can design a super cool suit straight out Starship Troopers (the book), but how would it fit into the existing armor system? What you describe is the nuclear-powered swiss-army knife that would make any other armor obsolete.
Well, you said it yourself: "The power armor isn't really 'armor'. It's a device" so I went with an integrated gadget idea. Also, I forgot to mention, the idea was that the more powerful effect that the armor offers the less it is effective as an actual armor, so it's a glass cannon high risk-high reward kind of thing. Anyway, what effects are exactly acceptable for a powered vest? Do you welcome ideas or those two that are already planned are pretty much set in stone? How many different separate effects do you think is enough in powered vests?
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Vince
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 07:49:21 am »

Works for me. I just thought that energy weapons were never that common even in the past of the ship...
They were common on Earth. So we have high-tech Earth-made weapons and armor and low-tech Ship-made (post-mutiny, after they ran out of energy cells) weapons and armor.

Quote
I thought about ceramic too, it still is a pretty cool concept, I wish that you could keep it as an alternative configuration.
We'll definitely consider it.

Well, you said it yourself: "The power armor isn't really 'armor'. It's a device"...
Device worn as armor and taking one of the armor slots. By not really armor I meant that it doesn't have damage resistance.

Quote
Anyway, what effects are exactly acceptable for a powered vest? Do you welcome ideas or those two that are already planned are pretty much set in stone? How many different separate effects do you think is enough in powered vests?
It's a relatively new idea, so all suggestions are welcome and nothing is set in stone yet, including the idea itself.

Overall, it would be nice to have 3 defensive modes that you can activate the same way you activated different power armor modes in AoD. The modes should be more or less balanced (i.e. not a single mode should be better than the other two by default). The obvious ones are damage absorption (shield) and hard to hit (deflector).
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Scott
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 11:10:50 am »

I agree that differentiating this awesome armor with a different name would be good. What if you called the deflector field Entropic Field Technology ?

I like the overall concept, but I'd be happier if the vest's energy field only lost power when it was interrupted (hit). I assume you can turn it on, and start the energy bleeding process, at will? I might wait until I had taken a couple of blows before I started it up if it's going to bleed out all on its own.
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Vince
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 11:36:21 am »

I agree that differentiating this awesome armor with a different name would be good. What if you called the deflector field Entropic Field Technology ?
We need a different name, I agree. Entropic Field for this particular mode does sound good.

Quote
I like the overall concept, but I'd be happier if the vest's energy field only lost power when it was interrupted (hit). I assume you can turn it on, and start the energy bleeding process, at will? I might wait until I had taken a couple of blows before I started it up if it's going to bleed out all on its own.
Turning it on and off manually sounds a bit too cumbersome. Most likely we'll turn it on the first hit. Losing power only when hit is problematic as then the players and the AI will simply focus their fire on the guy wearing the deflector armor and drain the power pretty fast.
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puppyonastik
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 11:31:34 pm »

The Art and UI looks amazing as usual!

Was the Mad Max Fury Road-esque Tom Hardy the inspiration for the Daltons?

Will the *very* tech savvy PC/NPC be able to hack opponent's power armor before and during combat at all? If so, will it be limited to shutting down systems or will applying de-buffs be possible too? It might be interesting having a small risk when, say, attacking ECLSS zones. Just a thought.

Thinking further... Which factions are likely to view Power Armor as a "witch-craft" taboo?
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2018, 12:33:16 am »

On mechanics for the "entropic field" armor - having a system like a capacitor, that regenerates protective ability over time, with a temporary reduction for protection offered in the immediate, might be something that works. for example - starting combat it's 60% reduction, reduced by 15% per hit, gaining 30% per round to a maximum of 60%. Maybe requires fusion power cells or whatever, and maybe can be upgraded with the correct technical skills. May be that upgrading carries a chance of catastrophic failure of the device (which is something that would be easily avoided with save-scumming, but embraced by those of us more nerdy folks who actually enjoy a good kick in the gonads, once in a while).

As for power armor (or powered armor); it's classicly known more as akin to a vehicle, than something you strap to your chest; more full-plate than breastplate. To my knowledge, power armor was really defined in Heinlein's Starship Troopers, where the armor required considerable training to use, and provided incredible advantages with things like mobility from jump jets, tank-like armor, and enhanced strength from joint-motors, not to mention any kind of tactical intelligence benefits that such a large package would provide.. This is a far cry from strapping a force field to one's self, and something that would probably bring a person a god-like status in an environment like this.
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