Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGThe New WorldCSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear
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Author Topic: CSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear  (Read 4553 times)
Nick
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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 05:18:56 pm »

...which suggests a simple solution - what you sell should disappear from the traders' inventories after the transaction.

Not sure about this. Often in RPGs, I want to buy back what I've recently sold (changed my mind, lost or used up the same item, etc).
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Sparacul
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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 07:27:51 pm »

...which suggests a simple solution - what you sell should disappear from the traders' inventories after the transaction.

Not sure about this. Often in RPGs, I want to buy back what I've recently sold (changed my mind, lost or used up the same item, etc).
It doesn't have to go right away and items can be set to disappear over reasonable time like 2-5 days. Although it would be good if special cases like ultra expensive uniques and relics would either never disappear from merchants or have a substantial increase in "selling" time (like 1-3 weeks). It gives enough time for the player to reconsider while also being fairly realistic. In AoD nearly every Maadoran merchant had a unique item waiting for the player likely because they were far too expensive for most people to buy, it takes time to sell that kind of gear to just the right kind of buyer.
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Vince
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 06:15:52 am »

...which suggests a simple solution - what you sell should disappear from the traders' inventories after the transaction.

Not sure about this. Often in RPGs, I want to buy back what I've recently sold (changed my mind, lost or used up the same item, etc).
Then the player would have to be more careful when selling items. In games with 'drops' (i.e. few items) what you sell won't clutter up the traders' inventory, but in AoD the inventories were overflowing with everything you sold. We'll have even more items this time around (boots, vests, jackets, headgear, tons of guns), so this is a problem.
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Oscar
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 06:58:49 am »

We can keep them in a separate "buy back" tab.
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2017, 12:32:32 pm »

re: everyone having melee weapons
The bruiser whose specialty is a 2handed hammer carries a bunch of throwing knives "as backup"? How are they backup if he's never practiced with throwing knives? Why should every melee specialist have a second skill? Sounds like cheese to me. If every once in a while you meet a melee guy who isn't prepared for ranged combat, so what? It's variety.

re: Power Armor
It sounds like it was copied from Fallout, or from other games which copied it from Fallout.

re: having a set of armor for every guy you defeat
Clutter isn't my problem with the system. It's that armor is worth nothing to resell, since you'll have 20 sets of it with you, and it's psychologically worth nothing since you'll have 20 sets of it with you.

My suggestion is to differentiate loot armor with plot-related armor. The Damaged Leather Armor is better than being naked, but not as good as the Leather Armor you found in an irradiated bunker guarded by giant mutant spiders, and while you could sell the plot-related armor for 100 credits, the Damaged stuff is only worth 10. Or if you don't like it being "damaged", arbitrarily make it inferior. Raiders and nobodies just have shittier, unmaintained armor, not hard to believe.
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NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 12:57:07 pm »

Or if you don't like it being "damaged", arbitrarily make it inferior. Raiders and nobodies just have shittier, unmaintained armor, not hard to believe.
Muh crafting!
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Vince
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« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 04:55:56 pm »

re: everyone having melee weapons
The bruiser whose specialty is a 2handed hammer carries a bunch of throwing knives "as backup"? How are they backup if he's never practiced with throwing knives? Why should every melee specialist have a second skill? Sounds like cheese to me.
Are you talking game design or realism? If realism, then secondary weapons were fairly common because a fighting man or a soldier had to be ready for different situations. The Roman legionaries, for example, carried two javelins and had to practice their throwing skills. If you're talking game design, then the melee fighter shouldn't chase a fast ranged fighter simply because it's not a whole lot of fun but be able to switch to ranged when needed.  

Quote
re: Power Armor
It sounds like it was copied from Fallout, or from other games which copied it from Fallout.
Starship Troopers had Powered Armor (or was it called Powered Suit?), so it's a pretty old concept. WH40k's ironic power armor has been around for a long time too. Even X-COM had power armor. It's definitely not a strictly Fallout or post-Fallout thing.

Quote
re: having a set of armor for every guy you defeat
Clutter isn't my problem with the system. It's that armor is worth nothing to resell, since you'll have 20 sets of it with you, and it's psychologically worth nothing since you'll have 20 sets of it with you.
Why does it have to be nothing to resell? If you kill some thugs wearing rags, the rags should fetch you a few coins. If you kill some top-tier fighters in an optional fight, their armor should be worth quite a lot, no?

Quote
My suggestion is to differentiate loot armor with plot-related armor. The Damaged Leather Armor is better than being naked, but not as good as the Leather Armor you found in an irradiated bunker guarded by giant mutant spiders, and while you could sell the plot-related armor for 100 credits, the Damaged stuff is only worth 10. Or if you don't like it being "damaged", arbitrarily make it inferior. Raiders and nobodies just have shittier, unmaintained armor, not hard to believe.
Sure, raiders and nobodies should have crappy armor, but we don't have to invest a special crappy category. Odds are, you'll be wearing the same armor, so why should your Leather Armor be better than their Leather Armor? What about tougher enemies down the road? Well-paid mercenaries, soldiers, special forces? Should they be wearing 'damaged polymer armor', for example?
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Morbus
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 08:21:38 am »

Regarding the buyback option, why not have a different tab for "buyback" that won't clutter the trader's inventory with sold items, but still allow the player to buy his stuff back?
What Oscar said.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 08:24:06 am by Morbus » Logged

Scott
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2017, 10:52:13 am »

Quote
Are you talking game design or realism? If realism, then secondary weapons were fairly common because a fighting man or a soldier had to be ready for different situations. The Roman legionaries, for example, carried two javelins and had to practice their throwing skills. If you're talking game design, then the melee fighter shouldn't chase a fast ranged fighter simply because it's not a whole lot of fun but be able to switch to ranged when needed.  

The way I look at it: put a bow and arrows on a table beside a baseball bat. Ask someone to pick one of them to use to knock a can off a table. Anybody can swing a club, ranged weapons are a learned skill. An archer carrying a knife makes perfect sense. A slow-moving thug who favors a maul carrying, and practicing with, throwing weapons seems like the exception and not the rule to me. I'm tempted to say "guns are a different story", but since ammo is supposed to be scarce I maintain that not every opponent should have melee and ranged weapons.

As far as the Romans go, please: they were one of the most (the most?) well-trained and organized fighting forces in human history. Using Roman military as a bar for literally every goon you meet is a bit high.
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Sparacul
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2017, 06:01:30 pm »

I'm tempted to say "guns are a different story", but since ammo is supposed to be scarce I maintain that not every opponent should have melee and ranged weapons.

Seriously the most logical thing you can do is add guns with bayonets. That way most of the gunners would have melee capacity while still not being as effective as specialised melee thug.

If you're talking game design, then the melee fighter shouldn't chase a fast ranged fighter

Melee fighters could get a buff to their movement if their proficiency is high enough. Or like a special combat skill "Rush" (harder to hit with overwatch, consumes all action points, moves all the way to the target, deals half damage and rolls a stun. Range is generous but not ridiculously so). That way gunners can't kite as much.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 06:15:26 pm by Sparacul » Logged
Scott
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« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 11:10:09 am »

It sounds like the problem that needs to be solved is kiting, which itself is ridiculous and unrealistic. Solve kiting and every enemy unit won't have to carry a javelin.
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 02:09:17 pm »

I guess the way it's normally solved is to severely limit movement points if you also want to do an attack. Won't be an issue for this game since most enemies will be ranged.
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« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2017, 02:40:32 pm »

Suggestion (I've suggested this on many games and never seen it): institute a severe THC penalty (50%) and/or instigate an AoO when firing at an adjacent space.

Imagine trying to shoot someone with a hunting rifle while they're actively trying to kill you with a machete. Even using a pistol, it's going to be harder to hit an enemy who's engaged in hand-to-hand combat with you.

Another potential anti-kiting measure could be to institute a ranged THC penalty if you've moved more than one square that turn. Realistically, a person does need to aim a gun before shooting it.
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Sunfire
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« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2017, 02:52:33 pm »

What if each square a person moved in current turn will give a small THC penalty (say, 3 or 4 or 5 per square) to aim/strike at him/her, like in TTG (BattleTech, etc.)? Thus greatly increasing the value of *light* armor.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:04:21 pm by Sunfire » Logged

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