Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGColony Ship: A Post-Earth Role Playing GameCSG update #18 - systems overview, second iteration
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: CSG update #18 - systems overview, second iteration  (Read 36556 times)
Vince
Developer

Posts: 8690



View Profile
« Reply #90 on: June 22, 2018, 08:01:10 am »

Another idea: let the STR additionally influence the armor penalty to AP (if it would be in game) or other penalties - heavy armor slows down a strong character less than a weak character. Everyone can put on a plate armor, but running around in it - for strong ones.
That's actually a pretty good idea, thanks.
Logged
menyalin
Artisan

Posts: 502


View Profile
« Reply #91 on: June 22, 2018, 08:37:16 am »

Glad to help!  Smile

Thinking about CHA...

Make CHA very nfluential in dialogues - reduce the value of conversational skills. Not very good.
The fighting spirit and team bonuses have already been discussed.

What about reputations? If you plan to make strong reputation system, CHA may shine in it. When you on high CHA - many can forgive you for something, not all bad rumors will be believed. You like dirty politician from which all the accusations bounce, breaking about his personal charm.
But when you low on CHA... Whell, then you better not to attract negative attention at all - people really love to find scapegoats and will blame you even for what you did not do. Just one multiplier and big gameplay effect, but everything depends on the reputation system, wich fits this setting even better than in AoD (limited closed space and all that).

Also, maybe it was planned in this way in AoD? Personally, i did not notice any big influence other than the dialogue checks and Choosen-One path.
Logged
Vince
Developer

Posts: 8690



View Profile
« Reply #92 on: June 22, 2018, 12:50:16 pm »

Reputation requires a lot of content and a lot of scripting. I'm not talking about the reputation meters and occasional reaction, which we will have. I'm talking about people actually reacting to you in meaningful way: extra quests, new quest solutions, losing allies, etc. We'll try to do what we can but at this point it's impossible to say what it might look like.
Logged
menyalin
Artisan

Posts: 502


View Profile
« Reply #93 on: June 23, 2018, 01:29:12 pm »

What about of more simple to implement effects to start with? For example, most stores with valuable and rare goods can be controlled by different factions, and if with a low reputation just close access to part of the traders - it will be logical, sensitive and simple enough (well, i hope). Or make it so that with a high reputation in the faction stores appear more cool things.

Logged
menyalin
Artisan

Posts: 502


View Profile
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2018, 08:22:07 am »

Dexterity: DEX+10 (instead of AoD’s DEX+2), so the new AP range is 14-20.
Isn't it too much? Look at CON: rasing it from 5 to 10 you rise your HP almost twice. And what about DEX? From 5 to 10 it's just 33% bonus to AP. The DEX was somewhat too valuable in the AoD, but this could be a too strong adjustment. DEX+5 maybe?

Intelligence determines the number of tagged skills that grow at a much faster rate, from 1 at INT4 to 4 at INT10.
So it will be 4-6-8-10 progression, yes? You really need something to fill the gap between even numbers. Remember the Fallout, where the odd DEX values were almost completely useless. Dialogue checks and resistance bonus may be aren't enough, you need something that will be clearly visible when creating a character. The additional experience modifier (say, -10% at 4 INT, -5% at 5-6 INT, 0 at 7-8 INT and +5-10% at 9-10 INT) can be good enough.

Charisma determines the number of party members, 1 extra follower at CHA4, 3 at CHA8.
The same problem with the gap and makes charisma pretty useless for those who don't want to play in a big team (especially Lone Wolves, who may be quite charismatic, just like to work alone). Gating works, but people will be unhappy if there is a lot of it, and generally the player wants that stats influenced the whole game, not only in some special places.
How about to make high and low CHA to modify dialog checks for appropriate skills? Say, +3 to difficulty at 4 CHA and -3  at 10 CHA. This is logical, will resolve the gap problem and make charisma important for any team size, but it won't completely replace conversational skills. And you've already done some dialogs in AoD, when CHA replaced or simplified the skill check, but it was additional writing, scripting and man-hours, which can be unnecessary.

Adrenaline Rush: +10% CS chance, +20% CS damage when 5HP or less
Too low HP, at least if the damage values are as in AoD, and additional bonus to evasion or AP can be needed. It will be much more interesting if feat will give a moderate bonus with HP, say, less than half or 20, and a big bonus for critically low (5-10) health. Too situational otherwise.
 
Second Wind: +2AP on kill
AP bnus should be enough for additional attack (wich may be OP), pretty useless otherwise, especially with a planned big AP pool. May be limited to one additional attack or feat effect per turn or two for balance.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 08:57:51 am by menyalin » Logged
dogwaffler
Novice

Posts: 26


View Profile
« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2018, 01:21:03 am »

I like it so far, for the most part.

The stats could have a major/minor bonus system, depending on if you're gaining an odd or an even level. I think this is fairly common in a lot of more 'mainstream' rpg systems (ie Mass Effect); where, for instance, where odd levels of a stat could add something substantial on paper to a character's value, without being necessarily tied to the stat's even-level primary bonus. Examples I can think of would be bartering bonus for charisma, carrying capacity for strength, small hit/dodge chance for perception, chance for damage resistance for endurance, and so on.

Of course, this would require another level of balance complexity, alongside the perks and augmentations and weapons and armor... so whether or not it's workable is really a matter of designer will and resources.

I personally don't mind the possibility of stat 'dark zones', that don't really do anything outside of gate checks in dialog, as long as things are well-explained during character generation (this is something that AoD did very well, imo). Of course, there is the possibility of stat upgrades, if even temporary ones (Fallout comes to mind), so those odd points might be construed as the higher even points sometimes.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 11:55:59 pm by dogwaffler » Logged
Dr.Eleven
Neophyte

Posts: 16


View Profile
« Reply #96 on: October 16, 2018, 01:27:25 am »

Hi,

Do you plan to make a more clear cut (than it AoD) division between combat skill points and non-combat skill points?
You can only gain combat skill points in combat or combat trianing (instructor, guide etc.)
Non combat skill points only by completing quests in a non- violent way.

Additionally, - highest level in skill cannot be bought with SP, only by finishing certain quests and training from guru instructors.
But let's say increase from 9 to 10 will give you nearly godlike ability of the skill.
It's a little dissaponting that in AoD you don't realy need to max out many skills (for any of the ending)
Logged
Vince
Developer

Posts: 8690



View Profile
« Reply #97 on: October 16, 2018, 06:53:58 am »

Hi,

Do you plan to make a more clear cut (than it AoD) division between combat skill points and non-combat skill points?
You can only gain combat skill points in combat or combat trianing (instructor, guide etc.)
Non combat skill points only by completing quests in a non- violent way.
You will not gain XP for killing, talking, sneaking, picking locks, using computers, fixing mechanical things and such. You will not increase your skills manually. Instead your skills will be increased automatically based on their use.

Why?

  • One of the most common complaints about AoD was meta-gaming, yet the problem wasn’t on the design end but on the player’s end. Basically, it was driven by the player’s desire to get more content in the course of one game. As that content required stats and skills, it forced some players to metagame, either to spread skill points in the most optimum manner or to hoard points and use them like currency to buy extra content. The ‘increase by use’ system eliminates this meta-gaming aspect as now there are no skill points to hoard or distribute. The content you get will be determined by your actions and choices (including which skills to use as your primary and secondary groups).

  • The main problem with a party-based, skill-based (as of opposite to class-based) setup is that even with a 3-man party you can easily cover all skills you want to have. You’ll have a fighter/talker, fighter/thief, fighter/fixer, which is something we’d like to avoid. The ‘increase by use’ system solves this problem in the most natural and logical way possible. Your abilities reflect what you do, not how (usually arbitrary) you distribute your skill points.

  • It reinforces the party-based design I talked about in the previous update. If you let one of the party members do all the repair work while you concentrate on other areas, losing this party member would hit you hard and you’d have to make sure (via choices made during quests) that he/she would stay with you no matter what.

  • It rewards consistent gameplay. Let’s say you need to deal with a gang that stands between you and that door over there. If you kill them, everyone’s combat skills will improve a bit. If you talk your way through, only your dialogue skills will go up.

  • We’re well aware of the possible exploits and want to reassure you that skill use will be a somewhat limited resource (no respawning enemies, silly things like greeting every NPC to increase your speech skills, spamming activities to max skills in 30 min, using faster weapons to level up skills faster, etc). Instead of counting how many times you did something, we’ll assign a certain value (let’s call it learning points) to each activity (attacking, killing, fixing, sneaking, convincing, lying, etc). So killing a tough enemy or repairing a reactor will net you more points than killing a weakling or fixing a toaster. Basically, it will work the same way as XP but go directly toward raising a skill that did all the work.

Logged
Dr.Eleven
Neophyte

Posts: 16


View Profile
« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2018, 08:02:28 am »

Hi,

Do you plan to make a more clear cut (than it AoD) division between combat skill points and non-combat skill points?
You can only gain combat skill points in combat or combat trianing (instructor, guide etc.)
Non combat skill points only by completing quests in a non- violent way.
You will not gain XP for killing, talking, sneaking, picking locks, using computers, fixing mechanical things and such. You will not increase your skills manually. Instead your skills will be increased automatically based on their use.

Why?

  • One of the most common complaints about AoD was meta-gaming, yet the problem wasn’t on the design end but on the player’s end. Basically, it was driven by the player’s desire to get more content in the course of one game. As that content required stats and skills, it forced some players to metagame, either to spread skill points in the most optimum manner or to hoard points and use them like currency to buy extra content. The ‘increase by use’ system eliminates this meta-gaming aspect as now there are no skill points to hoard or distribute. The content you get will be determined by your actions and choices (including which skills to use as your primary and secondary groups).

  • The main problem with a party-based, skill-based (as of opposite to class-based) setup is that even with a 3-man party you can easily cover all skills you want to have. You’ll have a fighter/talker, fighter/thief, fighter/fixer, which is something we’d like to avoid. The ‘increase by use’ system solves this problem in the most natural and logical way possible. Your abilities reflect what you do, not how (usually arbitrary) you distribute your skill points.

  • It reinforces the party-based design I talked about in the previous update. If you let one of the party members do all the repair work while you concentrate on other areas, losing this party member would hit you hard and you’d have to make sure (via choices made during quests) that he/she would stay with you no matter what.

  • It rewards consistent gameplay. Let’s say you need to deal with a gang that stands between you and that door over there. If you kill them, everyone’s combat skills will improve a bit. If you talk your way through, only your dialogue skills will go up.

  • We’re well aware of the possible exploits and want to reassure you that skill use will be a somewhat limited resource (no respawning enemies, silly things like greeting every NPC to increase your speech skills, spamming activities to max skills in 30 min, using faster weapons to level up skills faster, etc). Instead of counting how many times you did something, we’ll assign a certain value (let’s call it learning points) to each activity (attacking, killing, fixing, sneaking, convincing, lying, etc). So killing a tough enemy or repairing a reactor will net you more points than killing a weakling or fixing a toaster. Basically, it will work the same way as XP but go directly toward raising a skill that did all the work.



That's actually can be an excellent solution to problems that skill-point based systems entail.

The only thing to consider, though is skill balancing.
Either  all skills should take comparable time/effort/difficulty to improve or the payoffs from the more difficult skills should be higher.
It would be very embarassing and really discouraging to put so much effort into, say getting 10 in hacking, and won't be able to take advantage of it (compare Lore 9 was enough for everuthing in AoD)
Logged
Vince
Developer

Posts: 8690



View Profile
« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2018, 08:57:55 am »

I agree with you, of course, but it's a matter of content rather than balance. We'll do our best to offer enough quality content for each non-combat skill but I suspect that the mileage will still vary. At least with the new system you won't have to spend skill points blindly.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: