Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGThe Age of Decadence (Moderator: Vahha)New build on Steam's test branch
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Nick
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2017, 04:25:26 pm »

Haven't got my hands on PA in this build, but has the PA + Bows/2H fix been implemented yet?

If you mean equipping 2H weapon with active PA, then it doesn't really require fixing, imo. PA auto-equips force shield, and you can't, mechanically, use both shield and weapon from one hand.

Maybe we could add an option in PA interaction dialogue to disable shield auto-equipping, if Vince and Oscar think it's a good idea.
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"Oh, 'twould be marvelous if the world and its moral questions were like some game board, with plain black players and white, and fixed rules, and nary a shade of grey."
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Nick
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 05:50:47 pm »

Uploaded a build with above-mentioned fixes.
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"Oh, 'twould be marvelous if the world and its moral questions were like some game board, with plain black players and white, and fixed rules, and nary a shade of grey."
The Black Company. Shadows Linger.

"But is the best good enough?"
(c) Oscar
NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 08:02:12 pm »

Haven't got my hands on PA in this build, but has the PA + Bows/2H fix been implemented yet?

If you mean equipping 2H weapon with active PA, then it doesn't really require fixing, imo. PA auto-equips force shield, and you can't, mechanically, use both shield and weapon from one hand.

Maybe we could add an option in PA interaction dialogue to disable shield auto-equipping, if Vince and Oscar think it's a good idea.

Ah. I believe Oscar said something along the lines of allowing PA usage without shield about a year ago. Let me know if they changed their mind.
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RoboTek
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 11:38:21 pm »

So, I am having trouble determining what this did besides have better displayed information (which is nice).

I do have to say, I am pretty disappointed that combat was not refined further. The choices just feel.. superficial, and build options feel.. fake.
Really, you have Offensive Skill + Defensive Skill + Crit Skill, and choosing multiple offensive skills or multiple defensive skills is just terrible.
You can hold onto multiple weapons, but they don't all actually get used correctly. There is no displayed use of multiple weapons, and only the one you have selected can be used for counter-attacks. A spear will magically vanish and stop being useful for repelling. The second weapon, fundamentally, grants no advantage.

So why can you?  Pretending you have a false option just adds traps to the game. These aren't builds that are powerful in niche situations, they are builds that are weak.

Pretending you have weapon options has always not gone over well with me.


This is, fundamentally, the same with attack options. Generally, there are only a couple options that are valid, and high number of traps.

The game is good, it is very rare for a game to try to make these sorts of weaving narratives, and it does a pretty decent job. I look forward to future game made with this mentality.
That said, the combat has always been very weak for me, and I am disappointed that this doesn't seem to fix any of that.

Is this just me? Are there fixes I cannot notice?
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RafaelLVX
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 07:24:33 pm »

I don't know if this is the right place to post, I didn't see a bug specific forum.

I had one bug, not sure if it's caused by test branch (which I opted in). Build Version 1.5.0.0008.

I just started a new game as an assassin. After the first mission (killing merchant), I don't go to Feng (though I explore a bit), then talking to Neleos he asks something like "Hey, ready to send some more people to the ground?", opening the option for second mission (killing spies). I say "Always", and he starts giving out missions to everyone, tells me about spies, I am teleported to the front door of spies. I enter, then after I killed the first two, I convinced the third to give me papers, then let him go. After this, game took me back to talking to Neleos, he asking about "Hey, ready to send some more people to the ground?" again. If I say "Always", he gives me the same mission, I appear again at the spies' front door. If I click the door to enter, game asks me if I want to get back to the Boatmen, finally closing this mission and sending me right back. If I reply I want to look around some more, I just stay at the same place (outside the house, front door). I didn't have the opportunity to loot anyone inside the spies house unfortunately (I wanted the bitch's hand crossbow and coins). Back at Neleos', I don't have options (for example to tell him I gave my word and let a spy go), my character tells him there were three spies instead of two (but there are only two corpses). He says the client will be very pleased, pays me for three kills, and the game tells me I have a better reputation with house Aurelian.

Other than this, load times are very long, and bringing up menus and dialogs (inventory, character) takes 5-10 seconds when my GeForce is off, which I don't recall happening when I played about half a year ago.

Here's a save in case you're interested.

* Rafaellus1489784616_.sav (377.03 KB - downloaded 33 times.)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:33:17 pm by RafaelLVX » Logged
RafaelLVX
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 07:58:56 pm »

I don't know if this is the right place to post, I didn't see a bug specific forum.

I had one bug, not sure if it's caused by test branch (which I opted in). Build Version 1.5.0.0008.

I just started a new game as an assassin. After the first mission (killing merchant), I don't go to Feng (though I explore a bit), then talking to Neleos he asks something like "Hey, ready to send some more people to the ground?", opening the option for second mission (killing spies). I say "Always", and he starts giving out missions to everyone, tells me about spies, I am teleported to the front door of spies. I enter, then after I killed the first two, I convinced the third to give me papers, then let him go. After this, game took me back to talking to Neleos, he asking about "Hey, ready to send some more people to the ground?" again. If I say "Always", he gives me the same mission, I appear again at the spies' front door. If I click the door to enter, game asks me if I want to get back to the Boatmen, finally closing this mission and sending me right back. If I reply I want to look around some more, I just stay at the same place (outside the house, front door). I didn't have the opportunity to loot anyone inside the spies house unfortunately (I wanted the bitch's hand crossbow and coins). Back at Neleos', I don't have options (for example to tell him I gave my word and let a spy go), my character tells him there were three spies instead of two (but there are only two corpses). He says the client will be very pleased, pays me for three kills, and the game tells me I have a better reputation with house Aurelian.

Other than this, load times are very long, and bringing up menus and dialogs (inventory, character) takes 5-10 seconds when my GeForce is off, which I don't recall happening when I played about half a year ago.

Here's a save in case you're interested.

Thought I'd report:

1. Reloading and remaking all my steps, I remembered one more detail: after the dialog where I tell the third spy he can go, I'm teleported to in front of Neleos in combat mode, that's weird. Then when I finish the first round/combat, combat finishes and that is when I can talk to him about the same mission, accept it and appear at the front of the spies hideout the second time as I said before.

2. I managed a workaround. After I send the third spy away and appearing in front of Neleos in combat mode, I press Esc, choose Save/Load, and reload "Last Combat Autosave". That takes me back to the spies hideout, in front of the third spy, in combat mode. Pressing space to finish the combat, the "combat" ends and I can loot the two dead spies and leave the place by clicking on the door. Then it goes back to Neleos, where he asks how it went and I tell him there were three spies. The rest is the same, he pays me for three kills, I get Aurelian rep.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:33:45 pm by RafaelLVX » Logged
RafaelLVX
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2017, 11:41:00 pm »

Another strangeness I noticed on the same assassin campaign. Still working on Teron, if I go the the Mining Outpost and operate the panel, turning the machines on and all that, the Decanus and his men surround me and take me to Maadoran. Then a text appears telling what happened when I left Teron, but the text describes events of the last Teron Boatmen mission, event that never took place. It tells how the thing with the Guards and the Boatmen transpired and then how Antidas seized the moment to create his Sellsword army. That doesn't happen if I am caught and escorted from the mining outpost. Also, a Boatmen screen appears telling how the Boatmen chapters took different paths, mentioning the "mistakes" of Neleos, but it didn't happen.
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Dewey_Master
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2017, 08:27:08 am »

Another strangeness I noticed on the same assassin campaign. Still working on Teron, if I go the the Mining Outpost and operate the panel, turning the machines on and all that, the Decanus and his men surround me and take me to Maadoran. Then a text appears telling what happened when I left Teron, but the text describes events of the last Teron Boatmen mission, event that never took place. It tells how the thing with the Guards and the Boatmen transpired and then how Antidas seized the moment to create his Sellsword army. That doesn't happen if I am caught and escorted from the mining outpost. Also, a Boatmen screen appears telling how the Boatmen chapters took different paths, mentioning the "mistakes" of Neleos, but it didn't happen.

Those wheels were in motion long before you got on the scene and aren't grinding to a halt just because you left. In future playthroughs, you will find NPCs playing roles that you carried out personally in earlier playthroughs. You are not indispensable, though some more difficult turns of events can only happen by your intervention. The slides are simply letting you know how things went in your absence; what is the new state of affairs.
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RafaelLVX
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2017, 11:01:21 am »

Another strangeness I noticed on the same assassin campaign. Still working on Teron, if I go the the Mining Outpost and operate the panel, turning the machines on and all that, the Decanus and his men surround me and take me to Maadoran. Then a text appears telling what happened when I left Teron, but the text describes events of the last Teron Boatmen mission, event that never took place. It tells how the thing with the Guards and the Boatmen transpired and then how Antidas seized the moment to create his Sellsword army. That doesn't happen if I am caught and escorted from the mining outpost. Also, a Boatmen screen appears telling how the Boatmen chapters took different paths, mentioning the "mistakes" of Neleos, but it didn't happen.

Those wheels were in motion long before you got on the scene and aren't grinding to a halt just because you left. In future playthroughs, you will find NPCs playing roles that you carried out personally in earlier playthroughs. You are not indispensable, though some more difficult turns of events can only happen by your intervention. The slides are simply letting you know how things went in your absence; what is the new state of affairs.
Perhaps, but the text reads like something the player should know about, something that happened before. When you start with something like "After the demise of faction X...", you're mentioning established facts. When I left with the Aurelians, if I hadn't played the game before, I'd never know what demise the text is talking about, so the text should be explanatory, like "After you left, the Boatmen did this and that and in the end faction Y were crushed/confused/delighted. After the demise of faction X...".
As it is the text just  feels lazy and linear.
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Vince
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2017, 11:27:22 am »

Perhaps, but the text reads like something the player should know about, something that happened before.
It reads like news. If it makes you wonder what the hell happened after you left because everything was just fine when you were there, it's perfectly normal and no different than your reaction to real news (when you are unaware that some events were in motion).

Quote
When you start with something like "After the demise of faction X...", you're mentioning established facts. When I left with the Aurelians, if I hadn't played the game before, I'd never know what demise the text is talking about, so the text should be explanatory, like "After you left, the Boatmen did this and that and in the end faction Y were crushed/confused/delighted. After the demise of faction X...".

As it is the text just  feels lazy and linear.
I don't think that adding "after you left" would magically transform "lazy and linear" text into something good and proper.
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Vince
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2017, 11:35:11 am »

Here's a save in case you're interested.
There's definitely a problem there but so far yours is the only report, so I assume that for some reason the quest was never marked as completed, hence the loop. Do you have a save prior to that (before you enter the house for the first time)? I want to play through it and see if I can replicate the problem.
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RafaelLVX
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2017, 11:41:04 am »

It reads like news. If it makes you wonder what the hell happened after you left because everything was just fine when you were there, it's perfectly normal and no different than your reaction to real news (when you are unaware that some events were in motion).
Did you look at the text in context? It doesn't read like news, and even if you wanted to leave the player wondering, you'd need to give some hints to add mystery and not confusion, which are completely different things. As it is it doesn't look like it's chronologically right, it's a mixed bag. I'm talking about a storytelling issue, not news.

Age of Decadence does excel in storytelling so I don't see why defend against refinement in storytelling.
Quote
I don't think that adding "after you left" would magically transform "lazy and linear" text into something good and proper.
Maybe you discarded my comment outright and didn't bother looking at the text in context and now I see why, you didn't like that I called it lazy and linear, even highlighted it for me.
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Vince
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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2017, 11:47:35 am »

I do have to say, I am pretty disappointed that combat was not refined further. The choices just feel.. superficial, and build options feel.. fake.
Really, you have Offensive Skill + Defensive Skill + Crit Skill, and choosing multiple offensive skills or multiple defensive skills is just terrible.
You can hold onto multiple weapons, but they don't all actually get used correctly. There is no displayed use of multiple weapons, and only the one you have selected can be used for counter-attacks. A spear will magically vanish and stop being useful for repelling. The second weapon, fundamentally, grants no advantage.

So why can you?  Pretending you have a false option just adds traps to the game. These aren't builds that are powerful in niche situations, they are builds that are weak.

Pretending you have weapon options has always not gone over well with me.
I don't see it as pretending. There are different options for people who prefer different weapons, which play differently and call for different combat styles.

Quote
This is, fundamentally, the same with attack options. Generally, there are only a couple options that are valid, and high number of traps.
There are no traps there and each attack type was carefully chosen and debated to death internally, BUT there are attack types that won't be useful to certain builds but very useful to others.

The game is good, it is very rare for a game to try to make these sorts of weaving narratives, and it does a pretty decent job. I look forward to future game made with this mentality.
That said, the combat has always been very weak for me, and I am disappointed that this doesn't seem to fix any of that.

Is this just me? Are there fixes I cannot notice?

[/quote]
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Vince
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2017, 11:55:31 am »

Did you look at the text in context?
I did.

Quote
Age of Decadence does excel in storytelling so I don't see why defend against refinement in storytelling.
When someone offers criticism, I offer our reasons for doing things that way. It's not a defense of poor design but an explanation to consider and be aware of. It doesn't mean that the design in question is flawless and perfect in every way. If you have a specific suggestion, we'll gladly consider it in the future.

Quote
Maybe you discarded my comment outright and didn't bother looking at the text in context and now I see why, you didn't like that I called it lazy and linear, even highlighted it for me.
I'm very hard to offend and words like lazy or linear don't get me all worked up. I merely pointed out that if the problem is indeed that the design is lazy and linear, the proposed solution ("after you left") won't fix it. 
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RafaelLVX
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2017, 12:12:12 pm »

Here's a save in case you're interested.
There's definitely a problem there but so far yours is the only report, so I assume that for some reason the quest was never marked as completed, hence the loop. Do you have a save prior to that (before you enter the house for the first time)? I want to play through it and see if I can replicate the problem.
Maybe you're in luck, the only save I have before the mission is right in front of the house, right after I took the mission. Here.

If you need before this, that I don't have.

* Rafaellus1489784616_Espioes.sav (377.57 KB - downloaded 29 times.)
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