Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGDungeon Ratsconragulations, youre successful, and you deserve it. now fix your engine.
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Author Topic: conragulations, youre successful, and you deserve it. now fix your engine.  (Read 1909 times)
jaredstanko
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« on: November 10, 2016, 04:51:23 am »

i do not have knowledge into the inner budgeting at iron tower studios but based on reviews and forum clamor, as well as its short development time, its safe to say dungeon rats preformed to expectations financially, and based on the fact that it was produced, age of decadence sold well enough to keep iron tower open as well

im really proud of yall, and if my assumption about your finances is incorrect, rest assured that im pawning your games on my RPG loving friends all the time. im truly impressed, and cant wait to see what you do in the future. youre on my developer watchlist, with companies like paradox and CD Projekt.

one undervalued cornerstone of your games that deserves a lot of love is the art team. they frequently show their "rawness", and dont have too much to work with in terms of cutting edge technology, but the art direction in general, as well as the concept art and things like the splash loading screens they(s/he?) put together are truly magnificent. pieces like the legionary standing over the wasteland, or the gladiator in the caves, inspire a sense of frission and hopelessness that compliments the mood and atmosphere of your games so well.

one thing that anyone whose ever played any of your games can agree on however is that torque 3D is frustating, archaic, and not entirely suitable as an RPG engine. both your games(and dead state as well) serve to be very clunky and obtuse at times, crashing, failing to load, looking astetically unappealing in regards to the UI, with ill fitting blues and greens showing you the space you have available to move and attack, and a pastel red invading every aspect of the game from the squared, boring loading bars that and never fill, to the squared boring health bars. all of it is just such a drag. i really know way way less about game dev than you guys and im probably out of place for asking, but i just really hope you move on from it in future installments. it serves as a constant source of frustration and eye pain. it always looks more like an alpha release than finished product, and while ive grown to find this quality endearing, and while it will not stop me from purchasing your games in the future, i do look forward to being truely immersed in every part of your game, from the moment i click the launch button to the moment i close it. some polish on your next release would really do some good, and this is coming from a person and fan base that constantly rejects polish.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 04:55:46 am by jaredstanko » Logged
Goral
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 06:03:01 am »

I'm afraid that unless Nick will succeed with Unreal engine CSG will flop and only true AoD fans™ will buy it. Even now there are quite a few opinions like yours and in many reviews people were complaining about the graphics. I can't imagine what they'll say in 5 years time. 
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Vince
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 08:46:46 am »

We (meaning Nick) did our best with Torque and I don't think any further improvements are possible. Hopefully we can switch to Unreal 4 starting with the CSG.
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huckc
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 10:18:05 am »

We (meaning Nick) did our best with Torque and I don't think any further improvements are possible. Hopefully we can switch to Unreal 4 starting with the CSG.

Curious, would that engine upgrade likely increase development costs (more design asset work needed and animations)?
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Vince
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 01:22:15 pm »

We (meaning Nick) did our best with Torque and I don't think any further improvements are possible. Hopefully we can switch to Unreal 4 starting with the CSG.

Curious, would that engine upgrade likely increase development costs (more design asset work needed and animations)?
Of course. Staying with Torque would have been cheap and easy (that's where all our systems are, we know the engine and the scripting language well, etc) but Torque isn't getting any younger. At some point we'd have to switch and we'd rather do it sooner than later.
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jaredstanko
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 03:07:05 pm »

We (meaning Nick) did our best with Torque and I don't think any further improvements are possible.

I figured this was the case. Pushing it to its total limit

Of course. Staying with Torque would have been cheap and easy (that's where all our systems are, we know the engine and the scripting language well, etc)

I also had a guess that this was the case. Yall really banged out dungeon rats quick.(and i did enjoy it a lot. Quick wasn't a bad thing)

Im guessing that the speed it was produced in and your decision to make it are at least partly due to your familarity with torque.
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Vince
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 10:26:30 am »

Im guessing that the speed it was produced in and your decision to make it are at least partly due to your familarity with torque.
It's easy to put a combat game together when you have the engine with all systems (character, combat, inventory, dialogues, crafting, alchemy, etc) and assets (icons, animations, models, etc). If, for argument's sake, we were to do a sequel set in the Qantari lands, it would take us 3-4 months extra because we'd have to redo all weapons and armor.
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Pladio
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2016, 11:22:07 am »

Vince, would you consider doing a DR expansion that adds some side quests and/or longer gameplay ?
Or even a sequel ?

Would it be economically viable if it sells another 5-10k copies like DR probably will end up with ?
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NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2016, 12:39:50 pm »

Vince, would you consider doing a DR expansion that adds some side quests and/or longer gameplay ?
Or even a sequel ?

Would it be economically viable if it sells another 5-10k copies like DR probably will end up with ?

I've already begged asked for a sequel (along with some helpful suggestions in my review) but Vince was like "NO I MUST MEDITATE ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN FOR THREE YEARS SO I CAN CREATE MY MAGNUS OPUM!"*

Which is fine too, I guess. I'll be starved for ITS game play for three years or so then we can do Hardcore RPG IN SPEHHSSS!

*Paraphrased, of course. The literal translation of his words would have been too much for most mortal minds to handle.
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Vince
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2016, 01:27:26 pm »

Vince, would you consider doing a DR expansion that adds some side quests and/or longer gameplay? Or even a sequel?
Unlikely. We can't extend DR's story because it's a very simple and self-contained adventure. A sequel would have to be set across the ocean and would require 12-14 months, plus at least 2 months of post-release support, which will push the CSG back and make it harder to survive.

IF this game keeps selling we can add mini-modules set outside the mine. Each module is one of your party members' story. For example, Roxana tells you she ended up here because she disregarded an order and killed Gaelius' ally. We can let you play as her and do the assassination (a manor with guards and multiple ways to do it). 9 human party members - 9 mini-modules. Free content, of course, not paid DLC.

Just an idea at this stage, not a promise.

Quote
Would it be economically viable if it sells another 5-10k copies like DR probably will end up with ?
I doubt it since we're talking about 1.5 years of work and the average cost after a year would probably be around $5-6. So if we sell 10-15k copies, that's 50-75k before Steam takes its cut, before taxes, etc.
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NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2016, 01:40:45 pm »

Unlikely. We can't extend DR's story because it's a very simple and self-contained adventure. A sequel would have to be set across the ocean and would require 12-14 months, plus at least 2 months of post-release support, which will push the CSG back and make it harder to survive.

Sounds like the Charmer option is canon, then? Become Praetor, get sent across the ocean?
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Pladio
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2016, 05:22:05 pm »

Vince, would you consider doing a DR expansion that adds some side quests and/or longer gameplay? Or even a sequel?
Unlikely. We can't extend DR's story because it's a very simple and self-contained adventure. A sequel would have to be set across the ocean and would require 12-14 months, plus at least 2 months of post-release support, which will push the CSG back and make it harder to survive.

IF this game keeps selling we can add mini-modules set outside the mine. Each module is one of your party members' story. For example, Roxana tells you she ended up here because she disregarded an order and killed Gaelius' ally. We can let you play as her and do the assassination (a manor with guards and multiple ways to do it). 9 human party members - 9 mini-modules. Free content, of course, not paid DLC.

Just an idea at this stage, not a promise.

Quote
Would it be economically viable if it sells another 5-10k copies like DR probably will end up with ?
I doubt it since we're talking about 1.5 years of work and the average cost after a year would probably be around $5-6. So if we sell 10-15k copies, that's 50-75k before Steam takes its cut, before taxes, etc.

Would you not consider making some DLC then to help with CSG costs ?

Anyway, as with AoD, I'll try and help raise awareness for DR on the Watch.
I wish you the best of luck.

Hopefully, these games will become silent classics that then will sell a lot more as time goes on Smile
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jaredstanko
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 08:33:24 pm »

two posts since my last and TWICE you mention the quantari.

guys i think Vince has at least thought about this Wink

i want to see the colony ship game next, and i want all future iron tower games to get a new level of care, but i dearly hope they dont put this IP down for good  Grin
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NewAgeOfPower
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 09:10:45 pm »

two posts since my last and TWICE you mention the quantari.

guys i think Vince has at least thought about this Wink

i want to see the colony ship game next, and i want all future iron tower games to get a new level of care, but i dearly hope they dont put this IP down for good  Grin

Lol. It's one of my hopes to see (and play) a big pile of ITS games (of this level of quality) before I die.
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