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Author Topic: Help me not Suck  (Read 1921 times)
Serendipity
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« on: May 15, 2015, 02:21:56 pm »

I've had AoD for quite some time now and I'm looking forward to playing it. That said, I haven't yet started because I am utter garbage at combat. I thought Arcanum was brutal, my maxed party still dies to wolves in BG:2, and it took me a full month to make it past some random Hive thugs in PS:T when I was trying to find Pharod. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I'm not looking forwards to spending hours praying to RNJesus before every fight. So, that's why I want to build a non-combatant. In fact, that's what attracted me to AoD in the first place, the idea of playing a bastard manipulator who backstabs, deceives, and generally screws everyone over for personal gain. But, I can only speculate as to how I should build such a character. Essentially, I am asking (without spoilers please) what background, stats, and skills I should begin with and how I should upgrade those as I progress through the game. I would like the early game to be fairly fluid but I don't want that to cost opportunities later on in the game. Anyways, thanks in advance.
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Esquilax
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2015, 02:43:19 pm »

Non-combat characters that can get through the game without any combat are very much viable in this game. Your character can be very effective and complete quests despite not being able to fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Regarding which guilds, backgrounds are suitable for a smart, charismatic manipulator, anybody except the Imperial Guard and the Assassin's Guild. Now, you don't necessarily need to be a monstrous physical specimen to complete quests in those guilds, but they are definitely more suited to the sort of character that is a bad motherfucker. You should be at least a marginally competent fighter to go through those questlines, though it can be a bit trickier.

The Merchant's Guild seems to be right up your alley. The default stat distribution works okay, although you can also drop all your physical stats to 4 and max out your mental stats and it will work fine. I used a build similar to the default one the first time, except I dropped STR to 4 and bumped my INT to 9. If you are a merchant, your focus should be on Persuasion, Streetwise, and Trading at character creation.

You can easily avoid combat as a member of the Forty Thieves as well, but based on what you've said, you seem to be going for more of a scheming politician type rather than a smooth-talking charlatan, which is what a Thief is pretty suited towards.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 02:46:17 pm by Esquilax » Logged
Serendipity
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2015, 02:54:05 pm »

Thanks. It's good to know an entirely non-combat playthrough is possible. I already had I generally idea of what to do -- drop combat stats to 4, invest in streetwise, persuasion, etiquette, lore, and disguise, and so on. That said, I understand that not all of those skills are equally useful early on. I was hoping some one could answer what starting distribution is optimal and how far I should upgrade each stat. I don't want to frequently find myself one or two points short of the necessary skill requirements. Also, if I put 10 points into Intelligence, is it best to go 8 10, 10 8, or 9 9 in Perception and Charisma.
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Esquilax
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2015, 03:13:06 pm »

You'll want Charisma at at least 9, you can do a few cool things with that. Having 10 in a particular stat is by no means essential, but you do occasionally get a cool way of bypassing a certain task if you are truly exceptional at something (IMO, this doesn't happen enough in the game actually). If you are going to drop combat stats entirely, I'd go with a [PER 8] [INT 10] [CHA 10] setup.

At this point, you should have 80 points in character creation, which, believe me, is a shitload. From there, you can invest in Persuasion/Streetwise until 3/4, Trading until 3, a little bit of Etiquette (2), and a little bit in Lore as well. You'll probably want most of your initial investment to be in Persuasion/Streetwise skills, as that's the bulk of what you're going to be doing. Impersonation is a decent skill, but more suited to Assassins who are hybrid characters, and Thief characters who can function more as charlatans/hustlers.
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Astorius
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2015, 03:30:59 pm »

If you want combat oriented character i suggest this build:

http://i.imgur.com/uVDslkZ.jpg?1

As you can see your weapon will be a bow, your armor - in most cases armor with no max AP penalties (i.e. 12 AP max)
Your tactics - kiting your enemies, with 12 AP you can kite almost any melee character in the game. Your defense skill - dodge.

I think the easiest background is Preatorian one, you will have money and some help during the 1st fight.

During the course of the game you will find yourself in situations where either you will not be able to kite (in a small room with closed door), or in a small room with opened door but it is blocked by a hostile character.
In the 1st case just use alchemical flask called liquid fire (alchemy will be your non-combat skill to increase until you unlock liquid fire recipe), in the 2nd case you may try to feint your opponent and change places  with him, for feint attack you will need a dagger.

Other utility items to use are throwing nets and bolas, when your chance to hit is low, or you need to get people of your back - use those items.
When you will need perform a quick kill (several thugs are closing in on you and you have nowhere to run) use bolas/throwing net  (for a defense penalty) and a multishot attack, this is probably the only attack in the game that can one shot people, especially when performed with a longbow.

So, items you will need to carry with you:

Different types of bows, different types of projectiles, throwing nets and a couple of bolas and all the liquid fire flasks you can afford to buy.

In terms of lvling with this build i maintain two points difference between Bow and Dodge:

Bow skill is n, Dodge is n-2 (because if your tactics is right melee enemies wont hit you, your biggest concern will be ranged enemies and they should be your first target) and Throwing is n-3.

Bow skill of 6-7 should be enough for Teron, the 1st thing is to bump up Dodge by one and i d say throwing by one and then just play and see if you want to increase Bow, Alchemy or maybe Dodge or Throwing further.

Once the liquid fire recipe is unlocked i usually stop lvling alchemy and just focus and dodge, bow and throwing.

This is the easiest build that i have played and the most reliable, you won't need to reload 50 times to beat all the fights in the game;)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 03:32:43 pm by Astorius » Logged
Serendipity
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2015, 08:25:03 pm »

Just how important is the lore skill in dialogue? I'm guessing its primary use involves artifacts with perhaps small influence on certain discussion. And what about the trading skill. So far, it has allowed me to save some money, but it hasn't opened up any other opportunities. I'm just wondering how lucrative the skill really is, how important wealth is in AoD, and if it has other uses than getting better deals.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 08:32:53 pm by Serendipity » Logged
Esquilax
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2015, 08:38:16 pm »

Just how important is the lore skill in dialogue? I'm guessing its primary use involves artifacts with perhaps small influence on certain discussion. And what about the trading skill. So far, it has allowed me to save some money, but it hasn't opened up any other opportunities. I'm just wondering how lucrative the skill really is, how important wealth is in AoD, and if it has other uses than getting better deals.

Lore skill is tremendously useful. Its main use is, like you said, in examining ancient technology, but it also functions as a catch-all term for I guess what you'd call "Scholarly Knowledge". Basically, it also involves the sort of things that a person of education and refinement would know. You don't see it as much in the Merchant questline, but there are plenty of uses for it there as well, including an alternate solution for one particular quest in Teron (which I won't go into, because of spoilers).

Regarding Trading - in most games, a Barter/Trading skill is worse than useless. In AoD, Trading is just as much about the art of negotiation as it is about getting a discount on swords. There are a ton of Trading checks, especially in Teron, that allow you to resolve quests. That being said, I think Maadoran could use a few more Trading checks.

There will be enough points to go around, especially given that you are playing such a specialized build with a high INT bonus.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 08:40:18 pm by Esquilax » Logged
Serendipity
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2015, 10:19:33 pm »

A bit off topic, but are you unable to start the Aurelian Outpost quest until you've dealt with Cassius? I wasn't able to use the world map and travel to the outpost (despite have spoken to Derral or whoever it is about it) until I had been arrested and pardoned for trying to run Cassius out of town. I would have rather ignored the Cassius quest all together since the reward was small compared to the risk but I went ahead with it just to see if it would progress the other quests, and it did.

Also, I went through Teron pretty quickly. I'm already at Maadoran in roughly an hour. It's been really enjoyable so far, which is it why it troubles me that I'm going through the game so quickly, since unless the other main cities have much more content (or if there is more content upon returning to Teron) it seems I will have a pretty short playthrough. Obviously, the game has a lot of replayability, but I'm not the type for multiple playthroughs so I'm hoping for a good, lengthy run at the game.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 03:50:46 am by Serendipity » Logged
Astorius
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2015, 10:07:37 am »

Also, I went through Teron pretty quickly. I'm already at Maadoran in roughly an hour. It's been really enjoyable so far, which is it why it troubles me that I'm going through the game so quickly, since unless the other main cities have much more content (or if there is more content upon returning to Teron) it seems I will have a pretty short playthrough. Obviously, the game has a lot of replayability, but I'm not the type for multiple playthroughs so I'm hoping for a good, lengthy run at the game.
Non combat playthroughs are much, much shorter then the combat ones.
This is probably the biggest flaw in AoD for me.
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Serendipity
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2015, 07:19:42 pm »

Non combat playthroughs are much, much shorter then the combat ones.
This is probably the biggest flaw in AoD for me.

And with the game almost done, I'm guessing this won't change? Playing through the beta ended up taking between three and four hours. It was fun, but I wish there were more intermediate steps involved in the diplomatic quest solutions, such as acquiring valuable information or the such. If done well, this could add more gameplay and make the quests more intriguing. There are also moments that occur "behind the scenes" but could likely be transformed into an interesting quest. In Ganezzar, for instance,
(click to show/hide)
That said, I don't blame the devs, since what there doing is incredibly ambitious. I just hope AoD serves as a precedent of sorts for branching, politicaly-themed RPGs.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 07:21:13 pm by Serendipity » Logged
Astorius
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2015, 08:01:47 am »

Non combat playthroughs are much, much shorter then the combat ones.
This is probably the biggest flaw in AoD for me.

And with the game almost done, I'm guessing this won't change? Playing through the beta ended up taking between three and four hours. It was fun, but I wish there were more intermediate steps involved in the diplomatic quest solutions, such as acquiring valuable information or the such. If done well, this could add more gameplay and make the quests more intriguing. There are also moments that occur "behind the scenes" but could likely be transformed into an interesting quest. In Ganezzar, for instance,
(click to show/hide)
That said, I don't blame the devs, since what there doing is incredibly ambitious. I just hope AoD serves as a precedent of sorts for branching, politicaly-themed RPGs.
They do not plan change it until the full release.
This game is awesome not because of it's non combat part (which is good, but nothing earth shattering) but because of it's combat part.

Combat is difficult and requires both strategy (you character's attributes and skills allocation during the course of the game, your equipment choice before combat encounter) and tactics. (your positioning, movement and usage of all available means to survive, control and deal damage).

Try my build and see for yourself, it is not the most fun build to play, but for the 1st time combat char it is the easiest there is. If you do not like bows, use crossbows, there are some tricks to using them, but essentially they are very similair to bows, as one should expect.
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