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Starwars
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2008, 09:11:58 AM »

I have to agree with star on that. As much as it would pain to see even more development time, I think having at least people being able to sit and lie down would be a good move.
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Oscar
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2008, 09:14:14 AM »

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On the other hand.. I know you'll all hate me for this, but I really think that having everyone in the whole game standing may look weird after a while, especially when the text descriptions say otherwise. No people sitting around a campfire in the dark woods, no one lying in their beds at nightly assasination attemps and otherwordly taverns with an exesive amount of chairs but no one wanting to sit on them? Adding this might be worth it to give the world a bit (lot) more life.

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I don't suppose just placing sitting models is viable.

It's possible, but what will happen when you maniacs try to kill them? Evil

Basically, sitting models would be just decoration. The players would not be able to interact with them.

Sitting on the floor or maybe even lying in some beds it's easier to do, though.
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2008, 09:36:45 AM »

I have an impression that sometimes people forget that we're the indie studio. Mount&Blade, with all their cash, doesn't have any sitting guys. Take a look at most of the RPGs: maybe except of Gothic and TES games, I can't recall much that feature sitting. While that's not an example to follow, surely we don't have more resources then the studios behind those AAA titles. To be exact, we have only one animator, who doesn't have full day to work on AoD.

Of course, it was discussed multiple times already inside the team, and this feature is definitely on "WANT" list, however still its considered a luxury AoD can live without.
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Vince
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2008, 09:55:26 AM »

Anyway, I have 20 min, so here is the "seduction" option. Before we start, let me explain. I didn't want to turn "playing a female" into "playing a slut who will fuck just about anything". I wanted to offer you something more interesting - a woman who doesn't fuck men, but fucks with them, if you catch my drift. Without further ado...

Edit: putting on this provocative attire (or entering the tavern wearing it) triggers this conversation.

[attachment deleted to save space]
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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2008, 09:56:31 AM »

Your comments, thoughts, and suggestions are welcome.

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One Wolf
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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2008, 10:38:53 AM »

My god... this game just looks so very, very good. 



I agree about the sitting/lying models, it is a bit jarring to see everyone on their feet.  Even if the people sitting were non-interactive, it just looks better.  Not a deal-breaker at all, just aesthetics.
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« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2008, 10:44:49 AM »

Yeah, this game is looking amazing. The amount of reactivity, skill checks and how your character seems to define the game experience is fucking rocking. Need this game naaow.

If sit/lie means no interaction with these particular NPCs, then that changes my stance a bit. While it would still look nice in terms of fleshing out the visuals of the world, it's largely a non-issue.
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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2008, 10:48:33 AM »

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Even if the people sitting were non-interactive, it just looks better.

What does everybody think? I can do some sitting models, without any animations, in less than 5 minutes. But you won't be able to talk with them, kill them, and they won't react to anything that is happening around them. They'll be no different than a chair or a table.
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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2008, 10:52:33 AM »

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What does everybody think? I can do some sitting models, without any animations, in less than 5 minutes.

Hm, if it doesn't take longer than that I say go for it. But then again, how does stuff like combat usually work now? If I attack someone in a tavern, does everyone go hostile? In that case it'd be very weird to have the NPCs sitting there, not reacting at all, while everyone else tries to kill me.

If they can be strategically placed then I think it could make the game feel a bit more "alive" even if they are non-interactive.
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Vince: "We strongly believe that the hardcore player doesn't want to be loved, but wants to be kicked in the balls and then kneed in the face."

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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2008, 10:55:09 AM »

Hmm.. what about if someone really attacks the tavern (which should be pretty rare anyways) the sitting models just dissapear and the real moving models are spawned instead? No need for more animations and it would still give the benefit of more atmosphere/believability even if you can't interact with the sitting people.
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One Wolf
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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2008, 11:07:01 AM »

Star's suggestion is an interesting one, and the effect of inactive people in a combat environment is a valid detractor from the idea.

Oscar, if a mock-up could be assembled quickly, I wouldn't mind seeing a screen of the tavern with a couple of seated patrons.  Even in a corner against the wall would likely do the trick for me.

It's so purely visual that I almost hesitate to suggest it, but since I have noticed it often then perhaps others have as well.
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« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2008, 11:48:59 AM »

Hmm.. what about if someone really attacks the tavern (which should be pretty rare anyways) the sitting models just dissapear and the real moving models are spawned instead? No need for more animations and it would still give the benefit of more atmosphere/believability even if you can't interact with the sitting people.
That's what I'm thinking too. Just have them "pop up" and switch to real animated models when required. No sitting up-animation needed.
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Oscar
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« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2008, 12:20:09 PM »

Hmm.. what about if someone really attacks the tavern (which should be pretty rare anyways) the sitting models just dissapear and the real moving models are spawned instead? No need for more animations and it would still give the benefit of more atmosphere/believability even if you can't interact with the sitting people.

Easy in theory, not so easy in practice. That will require to create a new code system and model category to work, and very especific triggers. Now the actions of characters type are related to the faction they belong. These models would have to have some characteristics of character models in order to be able to react to the attack and to spawn the real characters. Basically, it's too much work and unneeded complexity (which means higher probability of bugs) for something that most players won't see. Besides, if you get into a fight with Cado and his goons, the whole tavern doesn't jump on you. They are customers, not members of the thieves guild.

It may be possible to have an especial interaction if you want to assasinate them, something like a sneak attack that instantly kills them or something along those lines.
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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2008, 01:05:33 PM »

Basically, sitting models would be just decoration. The players would not be able to interact with them.
He could talk to them? I mean, I don't even know what they do now. Do they have something to say, if they would be inclined to join a fight that doesn't directly involve them etc. If they're just patrons, they could just stay in their chairs even if you fight Cado and his thugs.
Maybe you could just make them "jump" from the chairs once you attack them. Not very good I know, but then only an issue if you actually bother attacking people randomly.


Your comments, thoughts, and suggestions are welcome.
I notice alot of "click through" screens, if you catch my drift. I'm not sure if that can be easily fixed, though. I thought of alternative skill check options, but that might just lead to a boring talk option maze.
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Oscar
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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2008, 01:11:27 PM »

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Maybe you could just make them "jump" from the chairs once you attack them. Not very good I know, but then only an issue if you actually bother attacking people randomly.

Jump how? Like this?

Hmm.. what about if someone really attacks the tavern (which should be pretty rare anyways) the sitting models just dissapear and the real moving models are spawned instead? No need for more animations and it would still give the benefit of more atmosphere/believability even if you can't interact with the sitting people.

Easy in theory, not so easy in practice. That will require to create a new code system and model category to work, and very especific triggers. Now the actions of characters type are related to the faction they belong. These models would have to have some characteristics of character models in order to be able to react to the attack and to spawn the real characters. Basically, it's too much work and unneeded complexity (which means higher probability of bugs) for something that most players won't see. Besides, if you get into a fight with Cado and his goons, the whole tavern doesn't jump on you. They are customers, not members of the thieves guild.

It may be possible to have an especial interaction if you want to assasinate them, something like a sneak attack that instantly kills them or something along those lines.
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"Hasta la victoria, siempre."

"Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have it?"
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