Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGThe Age of DecadenceBoth terminator and killer of men... oh come on dont tell me hes smart too ??
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Author Topic: Both terminator and killer of men... oh come on dont tell me hes smart too ??  (Read 3436 times)
Ank
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« on: November 16, 2014, 03:59:28 pm »

I just have to say it... nobody can kill and milk SP like thieves can... this bastard is just too good to be true... i reloaded only once for the bandit camp  smug he just arrived in madoran(wach out gaelius this time yr ass is grass)
Funny thing about him hes got 7int as well so he isn't exactly dimwitted and excepting 1 more craft level(he can all ready take(steel auxiliary seems tempting) and have spare SPs) hes wide open to learning just about any skill out there(hes already got some people skills)
Ps:In my defence about all the killing ...it must be stated: the imp made me do it i swear !!  Evil


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« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 04:02:50 pm by Ank » Logged

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Sunfire
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 04:20:09 pm »

Another person who appreciated might of the hammer Approve
Welcome to the sect, bro smug
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RandomName
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 05:36:48 pm »

Hammers are great, but why go Hammer when your dex is higher than your strength and you've got SP in CS? Sword is just as good and you'd have a natural +6 to hit compared to hammer. 
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Captain Shrek
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 05:49:29 pm »

I'm with RandomName here.

This build is way better with Sword. In fact I tried it earlier with just one change: The Con being 4 Tongue. SInce you are using dodge anyway, Con is just the filler. With Swords you will probably have a higher survival rate, what with all those crits you will be doing to disarm and cripple and knowckdown your opponenets.
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"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."
Ank
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2014, 10:31:30 pm »

Swords really ?? what's the point ?? i wish to fight my way trough the game not cheat my way trough it(as soon as i reach the arena champ's gear its game over ... i used his gear a couple of builds ago and butchered the entire 'aemolas vilage crew' by myself and twice in a row for good measure  lol nothing else feared any better against me either... if that isn't cheating i don't know what is Roll Eyes )
I started to play the game by my own twisted rules a good while ago... they sound like this: 1)no swords or spears(thou spears are possibly ok now after the quick jab nerf job ?!) 2)no gear that i haven't crafted or bought myself
About the hammer thing sure i would be better off on my THC with either dagger,spear or dare i say it sword Wallbang ...but i got no reason to complain with aziz's free training and the marculus's native +10THC... also hammers as a stand alone weapon are beyond unimpressive compared with any other weapon... but add crafting to them(accuracy&vsDR) and the results are well beyond what u would expect  Evil (trust me i know what i'm sayn)
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RandomName
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 12:26:47 am »

Right, forgot about Aziz' training!  I agree with you in light of that, hammer is better for this build - though I don't think it makes sense to put SP into CS  for a hammer user.  Excellent point on how well hardened (vDR crafting) works with the hammer passive.  Probably the best weapon type against high armor opponents (though dagger is good too there).

The handicap rules you've set yourself explain a lot.  If you aren't going to use the arena champ's gear, then crafting starts making a lot more sense. 
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Ank
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 10:44:54 am »

About CS investment as a hammer user in theory u are wrong it would increase the odds of knockdown so should work  Haha, no .... in practice u are completely right its a huge waste and are better of doing power attacks for reliable decent dmg output instead of expecting a knockdown every once in a full moon... about why i bother with CS the answer is: i don't, i simply take it to lvl2 (for a measly 5Sp) and leave it there till pretty much the end game(when u have some leftover combat SP's to burn not nearly enough to raise either dodge or weapon skill another lvl...)
Its also a common practice of mine to also sink 5SP into the weapon with the big-est synergy bonus(axe in this particular case)... heck by the end game ill have a ton of lvl 2 skills :alchemy ,CS,axe,bow,trow,maybe xbow(for 5 SPs in each u get a synergy bonus to yr weaponry(in this case hammer and to a lesser extent trow nets&bow)
Sure u may think its wastefull to trow away 5 points even in bow... but at a rate of 2(3 at 12dex) poison shots a turn vs an enemy group approaching from a distance(think aurelian outpost thief's guild combat situations) u will average a 5+&poison vs at least 2 to 6 opponents before u are even forced to begin melee phase  Evil sure normally with lvl 2 in a weapon u suck but then u remember ... darn he's got 8per (or more) and crafts(+9THC +1dmg for bow) add fast shots into the mix and u have the raw equivalent of a lvl3(4?) bowman doing normal shots lol
PS:should bulk trow-able items be craft-able&poison-able i woudn't even bother with bow but for now its too tedious to do  Roll Eyes          
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 10:48:53 am by Ank » Logged

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Captain Shrek
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 11:11:35 am »

So, ca you explain what is the advantage of a hammer over other weapns?
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Ank
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 12:03:13 pm »

Sure i can... let's be specific shall we ??.... marculus: +10THC &+10 counter attack chance(sure u have seen other weapons giving similar bonuses(better maybe) so not that great...) but here comes the real deal:
1)u retaliate with a power attack(provided u are accurate enough u will hit for heavy dmg and with an increased crit chance)
2)power attacks are only 5AP as well as aimed at arms and legs hit even the head shot is 6Ap
3)Hammer passive: guaranteed x% armor reduction on every hit(every darn time)... by itself this is close to retarded (compared to what dagger or sword give as passive specials) but... as u push further and go close to 50% reduction to witch u add +vsDR from crafting u reach the point where armors giving 4DR or under give 0 vs yr crafted hammer and even the hevy-ist armor u run across can barely absorb some 3-6 points of dmg from a hit...
PS: if u are neither a dodger or a crafter the u are about as dangerous as my dead grandma when u use a hammer  lol        
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 12:08:07 pm by Ank » Logged

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Captain Shrek
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 02:45:24 pm »

Sure i can... let's be specific shall we ??.... marculus: +10THC &+10 counter attack chance(sure u have seen other weapons giving similar bonuses(better maybe) so not that great...) but here comes the real deal:
1)u retaliate with a power attack(provided u are accurate enough u will hit for heavy dmg and with an increased crit chance)
2)power attacks are only 5AP as well as aimed at arms and legs hit even the head shot is 6Ap
3)Hammer passive: guaranteed x% armor reduction on every hit(every darn time)... by itself this is close to retarded (compared to what dagger or sword give as passive specials) but... as u push further and go close to 50% reduction to witch u add +vsDR from crafting u reach the point where armors giving 4DR or under give 0 vs yr crafted hammer and even the hevy-ist armor u run across can barely absorb some 3-6 points of dmg from a hit...
PS: if u are neither a dodger or a crafter the u are about as dangerous as my dead grandma when u use a hammer  lol        

 Salute

Still prefer the sword though. Critical hit on non power attacks really helps Tongue. Especially on disarm. Also, hammer is not that useful against guys not wearing armor.

But admittedly, this is a really good stratagem that you have.
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"The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."
RandomName
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 04:47:20 pm »

Arguably the strongest character I've ever had was hammer/craft build in the patch before this, using exactly the strategy Ank outlined.  10 craft, 8 dex, 10 strength.  Dude averaged 60 damage dealt per turn.  Can't come anywhere close to that now, but man was that fun.  Five fast attacks from a meteor steel -5dr marculus at hammer 7 shredded pretty much anything.  Also, the percentage reduction to armor appears to be applied before any -dr from hardened, so as he's said, hammer works brilliantly with crafting and is pretty crappy otherwise.  I personally prefer sword or dagger for dodge builds though.  Sword primarily because Al-Sahir's shamshir works so darn well for 12 AP characters.  Dagger IMHO is the strongest weapon type in the game right now.  They're just always good.  Really, all of the melee weapons except axe are good currently.
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Ank
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 10:13:12 pm »

Wouldn't exactly say axe is crappy now(not that great either tho)... not by a long shot , provided u got 3 things : good axe skill ,good CS and good str... it would go smth like this: yr strike is savage(some say 20% chance) if not it still may be a crit(again some up to 20% chance) if not yr str should at least ensure u do some dmg... plus u got mineb that one rarely fails to hit/counter... as far as i'm concerned i even made a mineb bloker terminator quite recently.... Dagger is somewhat of a default for many builds lately(yes at high enough level it can overcome heavy armor quite well) but the real thing that makes it shine its the belt to weapon slot 0AP move(heck u can swich around some 3 daggers and a net for practical cost of 0AP) but then again i find that one to be a bit of an exploit: any darn 1 handed weapon should fit on a belt slot(people did carry swords even small hammers/axez on theyr belts in real life as well(sure the striking end was up pointing towards the head but that's besides the point... fact remains they did carry them on the belts)  
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 10:18:56 pm by Ank » Logged

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Ank
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2014, 11:31:13 am »

My experimentation with hammer, light metal armor and craft is complete... and what i consider to be the optimal results(in regards to SP investment/metal type availibility)  are unexpected in regards to both offense and defense... armor wise my results are decent enough: an armor providing 6DR 38vsCS(regular ferrata gives 40) at the cost of 15% dodge... weapon wise at my target mix of craft&hammer skill i can turn 10DR(regular ferrata steel) into 3DR... however the price to pay is nasty: a 7int can pull it off(at the cost of having close to no other civil skills) while for smb under 7int i belive it to be rather impossible...
All of the above make me think its only worth the effort if the end goal is a brutish slayer capable of rudimentary streetwise checks and close to nothing else  Roll Eyes while the build itself is rather rigid and u can't pull it of if:
1)str is below 6(why would u even consider hammer if u are so week?)
2)int is below 7(between craft,weapon and defensive skill u spend a crap load of SPs)  
3)per is below 8(u need a lot of accuracy to hit dodgers with power attacks and make blockers fail to raise theyr shields(seriously yr attack rating should end up being at least 100)
4)con is not neglect-able(if u are in silk ordu u can die from as little as 2-4 hits... if in heavier crafted metal ones u still need to absorb the occasional crit/dagger bypass special that go above yr armor's DR) otherwise u end up doing a shit ton of reloads  Roll Eyes i wouldn't bother making smth meant to fight with less then 6 con...
5)while dex.... assuming u are a dodger must be a minimum of 8(10 AP = 2 power marculus shots) preferably 9 or 10 if u wish to ensure initiative...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 11:40:26 am by Ank » Logged

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