Poll
Question: Please give a rating
90+ - Great - 9 (18%)
80-89 - Good - 26 (52%)
70-79 - Ok - 11 (22%)
60-69 - Mediocre - 2 (4%)
Less than 60 - Bad - 2 (4%)
Total Voters: 50

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Author Topic: Temple of Elemental Evil  (Read 20632 times)
Defenestrator
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 01:18:11 pm »

Voted "Good."

Great turn-based combat, love the graphics/presentation (don't know why more developers don't try out hybrid 2d/3d and I liked the ambient, synthesizer based music as opposed to the traditional orchestral type music you get from other fantasy games), didn't experience any game-stopping bugs.  Good example of in-game help/civilopedia for an RPG, especially if you're trying to learn a ruleset.  Clean, minimal interface. What was executed well was executed very well.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 01:23:03 pm by Defenestrator » Logged
Gambler
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 02:40:39 pm »

Crashes and performance issues aside, it was interesting to play something where D&D combat required you to think. All those spells that were just for show in other games actually served a purpose, there was no overabundance of ridiculously powerful weapons, and the party was of relatively low level, where rules are moderately balanced. Finally, it was refreshing to see hired party members who required payment.

At the same time, it was just a dungeon crawler. Compared to something like Jagged Alliance 2 (which I'm playing right now), it doesn't look that great. Sure, there are dialog choices, and various role playing options, but they weren't that interesting, and they definitely weren't the crux of the game. Also, D&D is so convoluted and complex... Learning so much rules is not justified by the end results.

As usual, no vote. I don't think anyone who visits the website regularly cares about poll results anyway.
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Palmer Eldritch
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« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2011, 07:16:27 am »

All right, so I finally gave this game a chance after giving up on it a few times in the past. Figured I might as well revive this old topic since it is the proper ToEE thread.

Voted "Good" even though I have yet to finish it. Why? Well, to begin with, RPG combat is rarely this enjoyable. Gameplay-wise, this is what Baldur's Gate should have been. The visuals are stunning, and the music is also quite good.

The exploration aspect of the game is also impressive. To give an example, I discovered a section of the temple populated by shadows and a few trolls. Having dealt with them, I send my rogue to scout ahead. As he slowly sneaks through empty corridors and rooms, I gradually lower my guard. Foolishly, I figure that I might as well have him run rather than sneak since the place is empty anyway. As he runs into the final room of that section, I realize my mistake as he stumbles on some strange night hag-esque creature who almost kills him instantly. Typically, the rest of the party was far away.

The point is that the game punishes you severely if you aren't cautious, which makes the exploration aspect much more engaging. To be fair, Baldur's Gate was similar in that regard.

I agree with the common complaint that the quests and towns are rather dull. It didn't matter much to me, since I only did a few quests in between dungeon sessions. You need to be in the mood for dungeon crawling if you're going to play this.

Another common complaint is that there is a lack of enemy variety. More specifically, people seem to be annoyed by the amount of bugbears you encounter. I'm not sure about this since I haven't explored every nook and cranny, but it seems to me that people are exaggerating. Most of the bugbears are tied to the factions, and will not attack you for the most part. There are many bugbears, true, but there are many other enemies as well, such as snakes, gnolls, skeletons, shadows, goblins, trolls etc.

Anyway, I made the following party:

Alignment: chaotic good

Half-elf fighter, using a scythe as his primary weapon.

Elf ranger, focusing on two-weapon fighting.

Elf wizard, mostly for damage-spells, but also for weapon and armor crafting.

Human bard/fighter, as a support character, brewing potions and scribing scrolls for healing, among other things.

Human rogue, for obvious reasons.

It works quite well, although not having a cleric was kind of difficult in the beginning.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 04:57:29 pm by Palmer Eldritch » Logged
suibhne
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« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2011, 01:58:13 pm »

It'll probably be considered heretical, but I'll say it anyway: I enjoy ToEE's TB combat more than any other computer TB combat system I've played, period. That includes JA, X-COM, etc.

The game has major weaknesses, sure. But I still have to rate it 80-89, because the combat system - the core gameplay for ToEE - is so superb that I've never found a better game.

Besides that, I'm also fond of the game's graphics and sound (including the music). And I love its tutorial system, which uses a standalone approach that I wish had been more influential in the market.
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UniversalWolf
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« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2011, 06:36:39 pm »

Good.

Superb combat, good enough to carry the weaker parts of the game on its shoulders.  Really, really pretty graphics and the best implementation of PnP DnD game mechanics ever in any computer game.  Puts NWN to shame in this regard.

Still suffers from aggravating bugs and a lack of easy modability, despite the laudable efforts of the fan community.  Fairly poor story and uninspired dungeon design because of its reliance on a PnP module that works better as a hack-n-slash PnP module.  Lots of annoying fetchy quests in Hommlet, the starting town.

With more polish, a good story, and easier modding, this could have been an all-time great.  The good parts are really good.  Unfortunately there are plenty of bad parts.  Still worth playing, especially at the low, low price of an old game.
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Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
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« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2011, 11:33:34 pm »

One of my favourite dungeon crawlers. Gave it 80-89. I played it 8 or 9 times, trying different parties. My all rogue (including multi-classing) party that relied on rogue-friendly spells and abilities (flanking, grease, flare, true strike, blur, glitterdust, etc) was a blast to play.

Overall, the game didn't have much of a plot/story (although it had some nice role-playing opportunities at the temple), but as a dungeon crawler it was superb. Very robust character system (yes, I know it's DnD, but there is a huge difference between ToEE's DnD and BG or NWN DnD), the best turn-based combat engine to-date, and great animations. What's not to like?
Yes, this sums up pretty well my opinion.
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Villfarelse
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2011, 05:41:31 am »

I just wish I could get it to work.
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Palmer Eldritch
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2011, 08:53:07 am »

All right, so I got bored with the aforementioned party and tried a new setup. This time I went with barbarian, rogue, monk, cleric and sorcerer. I'm not much of a D&D expert (in fact, all I know about the rules I learned from BG and NWN) so I'm discovering new things as I go along.

For instance, dealing with trolls (and other enemies with regeneration). So far I've mostly been knocking them out and escaping, since I usually didn't have enough fire spells to kill them. Then I realized that you can knock them out, and use the "coup de grace" attack to cut their heads off while they're prone. How awesome is that?

Also, monks are fun. It's pretty satisfying to watch how the monk runs through a long hallway to deliver a nicely animated kick in the face of one of those annoying umber hulks. It's interesting how different classes make use of different stats (monks use their wisdom in combat, sorcerers rely on charisma).

It's also nice how crafting can make a huge difference. I use my cleric to scribe scrolls and craft magical armor/weapons, while the sorcerer crafts wands and wondrous items. My barbarian has turned into a real killing machine with his gloves of giant strength (or whatever they're called) and +3 bastard sword of mighty cleaving. It's immensely satisfying to reach a respectable level of effectiveness in this game, considering how difficult it is in the beginning.

I'm playing the game unmodded (I always save mods for replays, and since I have yet to finish the game...), but I'm planning to try the circle of eight mod eventually. Any advice on that? Is it complicated to install?

Also, I would appreciate some suggestions for my sorcerer's future spell selection (currently level 8 ). I tend to choose the spells that I know are effective in many situations (i.e. fireball, ice storm etc.) and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on some interesting stuff.

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Anonxeuix
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2011, 09:26:00 am »

After reading that^, ToEE is on my to-play list once I finish with the BG games.
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2011, 11:25:43 am »


Also, I would appreciate some suggestions for my sorcerer's future spell selection (currently level 8 ). I tend to choose the spells that I know are effective in many situations (i.e. fireball, ice storm etc.) and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on some interesting stuff.
Ice Storm actually kinda sucks, IMO.  Haste, Slow, Suggestion, Mage Armor, and Stoneskin are all excellent.  In general: Buffing and de-buffing is better than blasting, unless the "blast" is Fireball.
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One Wolf
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2011, 01:57:38 pm »

Also, keep in mind that many 3ED skills that were completely useless in NWN are useful as hell in ToEE.  Just read the description for all available talents and how they relate to actual TB combat.  That was a mistake I made in first run in ToEE - I built a party that would work well in NWN.... and got wrecked =)

Sounds like you're already doing that; I skipped all the crafting feats because they couldn't have mattered less in NWN.  Well, turns out that they're pretty useful.
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2011, 11:25:36 am »

Nothing wrong with Ice Storm.  It's more of a chipping away kind of spell, not a one-stop solution.  IIRC it cuts movement in half for affected enemies as well as dealing out some damage, so it's good for big crowds (of which there are plenty in the Temple) and for weeding out weaklings.  Those other spells are fine, but Ice Storm is level 5, right?  So it's not in competition with Fireball, Haste or Slow.
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suibhne
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2011, 02:25:59 pm »

I found movement-affecting spells much more useful in ToEE than in previous D&D games, at least partly because of the greater tactical depth in the TB combat system. Ice Storm is actually very useful, imo. Even lowly Grease saved my bacon (ha) on numerous occasions.
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Villfarelse
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2011, 01:42:06 pm »

So, thanks to a tip from Scott I finally got this game working (the demo, anyway). While it didn't quite live up to the expectations you put on it with your praise, it seemed quite good, and I assume it would be even better with the full game. It definitely got bumped up a notch on my to buy list.

I can't understand why they didn't let you create your own party for the demo, though. That just dumb. And, partly thanks to BG I guess, five party members feels a bit few.
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beans
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« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2011, 10:17:24 am »

So, thanks to a tip from Scott I finally got this game working (the demo, anyway). While it didn't quite live up to the expectations you put on it with your praise, it seemed quite good, and I assume it would be even better with the full game. It definitely got bumped up a notch on my to buy list.

I can't understand why they didn't let you create your own party for the demo, though. That just dumb. And, partly thanks to BG I guess, five party members feels a bit few.
im the main game you can make 5 party members and have 3 mercs, so 8 total
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