Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGSystem Crash (Moderator: Gareth)The System Crash feedback thread
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Gareth
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 08:14:11 am »

No worries mate! Thanks for taking the time, and good luck with things, hope your load eases soon.
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GhanBuriGhan
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 09:08:59 am »

Nice, lots of detailed feedback. Indeed testers seem to largely agree too. Big props for having so few apparent bugs.  Salute


Possible bug: Starting the game again today, it seems the card I unlocked in the Lewis mission is now locked again. (ICE breaker - It shows up, but the price tag is gone, instead it says " unlock in campaign mode".

Never mind, sorry. It's there again when I enter the campaign.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 09:15:43 am by GhanBuriGhan » Logged

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Gareth
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 09:18:00 am »

Hmm.

Something which is probably confusing and I should change, there is a difference between editing your deck in campaign mode and from the main menu. Technically, in the main menu, while your profile is "active", there is no active campaign. Your unlocked cards are tied to your profile, but your current credits are tied to your profile AND a campaign.

There is only one campaign at the moment, but I plan to add more in expansions. I didn't want you to be able to fuck up the campaign balance by earning credits in one campaign, going into another, spending those credits on the second campaign's cards to unlock them in a different progression arc than the balance calls for because you're richer now, etc etc.

So, in the main menu, locked cards indicate that you can unlock them in the campaign instead of a price. If you go into the campaign, that card should give you the standard "buy for X credits" prompt.

So you're saying you previously *bought* that card with that profile and now it's locked again? That would be a bug? Something else that perhaps is confusing, unlocking a card in the Black Market doesn't buy it, it simply makes it available to purchase. It gets added to the seller's stock, essentially.

I haven't done a good job of making this clear to players. If you unlocked the card but didn't actually buy it, and you're editing the deck in the main menu, then that is what you should see. (but not necessarily a good design on my part.  Confused)
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2013, 09:22:55 am »

I haven't done a good job of making this clear to players. If you unlocked the card but didn't actually buy it, and you're editing the deck in the main menu, then that is what you should see. (but not necessarily a good design on my part.  Confused)

Yup, this. It's not terribad design I think, I just wasn't paying attention.

I assume the fact that I can load decks that include cards that I haven't actually unlocked is what you refer to in the readme - this only works in alpha so we can try stuff out, right?

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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2013, 09:31:24 am »

I love how slick the interface is. Music and art is pretty cool too. In general I had no issue figuring out how it works. I have no previous experience in card games, but read your posts and know a little about the system. It was quite fun. As many had said, the issue I had was that after I played my cards I had no indication on how to continue. Nothing was interactive on the screen, no button to press or anything, nor info on how to continue. Then I figured out that in true turn-based fashion had to press Enter to end the turn Smile

The main issue is that it is very addictive, and I have to work, dammit! Tongue
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2013, 09:41:36 am »

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The main issue is that it is very addictive, and I have to work, dammit!

Approve

Haha, thanks Oscar!

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I assume the fact that I can load decks that include cards that I haven't actually unlocked is what you refer to in the readme - this only works in alpha so we can try stuff out, right?

Yep.

For other people reading this thread - there are 11 missions available to play in the alpha build, but it's really just the beginning of the story, when your character is starting from the bottom again, attempting to rebuild their resources and reputation. You don't have very many of the cool cards yet. So, to give people a sense of the cooler stuff later in the game, I included a few showcase decks for people to experiment with, to challenge the AI in a SenseSim (quick battle) match.
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Llapgochmaster
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2013, 09:48:21 am »

Must be pretty gratifying to have people coming back having had fun, even without all the elements in place.

Also interesting to see many of the same UI points being made, so at least you've got a clear mandate going forward.

Go get 'em!
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« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2013, 12:47:38 pm »

I'll save you the trouble and post my feedback myself. Wink I'm writing simulatenously with running the game for the first time so this are raw first impressions. Added spoiler tags because it might be a long post.

(click to show/hide)

Well, 3 hours ought to be enough for a "first impressions" post so I'll finish for today. No bugs so far, unless you're counting that one typo. Approve

I haven't really played any CGGs before so I can't compare the game with others of it genre. I'm also still unsure how much I like the genre itself. On one hand I had to force myself to quit playing, but on the other hand I don't see myself spending much time on planing my decks.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:08:37 pm by Dragatus » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2013, 01:44:10 pm »

Thanks for the feedback!

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What kind of name is Lewis?  Grin

 lol

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3. Checking out the "black market" I see I have 5k credits but I see no way to spend them.

I'm going to change how this works, it's confusing new players.

Firstly, I'll disable the black market before the first mission. Some people aren't sure whether they should be going there first or not. I'm going to make the intro a bit less confusing by making the progression (with tutorial tips to guide you) : read JoJo's email to get mission->do mission with starter deck->win, unlock cards, open black market to see multiple cards available to buy, with hint saying the you should play more missions to get credits to purchase them.

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Tried a practice match, didn't notice the "pick a card to discard" flashing above and discarded a W1dg3t instead of playing it. Double-cheked readme and can't find discarding mentioned anywhere. Readme could also mention modifiers along with agents, tactics, and events.

I'll make this more obvious. And thanks for mentioning the readme, I didn't realize I'd forgotten to talk about that part.

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The AI is doing some silly mistakes. The first one is playing Innocent Bystanders when the battlefield is still compeltely empty. Since the IB does no damage I don't need to block them and can play my dudes in the 3 unopposed slots. Well, there was that one time when the AI played an IB and gave him a gun, but that seems to have been just luck.

This is not a mistake (although it's not necessarily the best option), for 3 reasons.

1) Think of the battlefield as having 4 "lanes", down which you can score OP if your Agents make it through unopposed. Innocent Bystander is essentially a cheap, weak wall. Can't attack, is just there to soak damage.

By playing IB to a lane, you're reducing the number of lanes open to attack down. It *can* be a better option to hold them in reserve, to wait for the opponent to bring out a more threatening Agent and then place them to block, but simply walling off the lanes to buy time is a valid strategy too. It would be less useful if there were lots of lanes, but there are only 4. Place 2 down and you've walled off half the field. You will find you need to target those lanes fairly quickly.

2) They can be armed with modifier cards, including weapons. Placing them down earlier means they become ready to attack sooner, or use special abilities. They can't use special abilities while Exhausted, which is what they will be for one turn after play.

3) Cost efficiency. Holding an IB in hand until you have a weapon modifier to play with it may seem the best strategy, but remember you will need to pay both costs at that point. If you have the credits now and little else to put down, going ahead and playing IB will mean that you later don't have to spend its summon cost as well. Which could mean the difference between playing another card at that point or not. And since most players won't make the effort to target IBs early, unless there are no other open lanes, they'll probably survive a round or two.

I'm not saying a wily human can't choose their moment better, but it's not completely braindead.

That being said, there are some bonehead things the AI does. An example is the Take Cover thing. The AI is not very good at contextual look-ahead.

If you would, keep playing and let me know what you think over a range of battles. Battle difficulty is created from 3 aspects : the AI making decisions, how well the deck is built (my part of the equation) and that element of luck. Lewis is not very hard, I built the deck to be a fairly trivial challenge, but I think the later matches get more challenging. Try some of the showcase decks vs each other in SenseSim mode.

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13. Games feel pretty random in that a lot depends on what cards I draw. I've had games where I had plenty of cards I wanted to play and no credits and the last game was the opposite, I had purely credits and special cards, but no agents.

Yep, this has been identified as a problem a few times now. I want there to be better and worse starting hands, based on luck, but what I don't want is the scenarios you described above, a starting hand that has no credits or one that is mostly credits. Not for the player, nor the AI.

I'm going to introduce a Mulligan option for both sides. This will allow each player to choose to discard their starting hand and redraw, once, after drawing the starting hand but before play starts. The 2 problem cases are outliers, I think a Mulligan redraw will fix the problem in the majority of cases. Having that happen twice in a row should be extremely rare.

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On one hand I had to force myself to quit playing

 Grin

Quote
but on the other hand I don't see myself spending much time on planing my decks.

Well, give it a chance. I find that the deck building joy only really kicks in once you get a wider selection of interesting cards and start imagining interesting combos. I fear that in this Alpha I haven't given you enough options to entice a player. Need to dangle enough carrots to have people going "ooh, look at that, that looks interesting, I just need another 5k credits for that one."
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:47:44 pm by Gareth » Logged

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Dragatus
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2013, 03:02:54 pm »

I guess you're right that opening with IB isn't  outright wrong. I still think it's contextual, but let's save this for the "Strategies" thread. Wink

The "Mulligan" sounds good.

Don't worry, I'll play some more in the following days. I think I've played about 10-11 "battles" so far. I know for sure I have 8 victories (1 sim, 1 lewis, 2 dirt, 3 chemicals, 1 lending a hand) and I think I have about 3-4 defeats (including my first sim battle when I was still figuring out how things work).
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 09:17:06 am »

Could you do the mulligan like in the MtG Duels of the Planeswalkers games where you get one for free and each subsequent one costs you a card from your max hand size for the first hand? Getting screwed twice in a row happens a lot to me. I realize you can't let players do it infinitely because they can keep drawing until they get the perfect cards, but this way gives them a choice to make between a sub-optimal hand or fewer cards that might be better.
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2013, 09:24:00 am »

I'm looking at something like that, yeah.

Each mulligan after the first imposes a penalty, either fewer cards in your starting hand per mulligan or perhaps giving the opponent some free Objective Points, so they have a slight head start over you.

I contemplated making the mission reward fewer credits if you mulliganed, but that would just encourage save scumming.

The trick is to make sure that people can't abuse it to quickly cycle through their cards until they find the best starting combo available.
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2013, 12:13:55 pm »

Noticed an AI problem during one of the last missions available in the campaign:
I had 2 agents on the field, with enough attack power to kill AI on my turn.
AI has nothing on the field.
AI plays 2 agents, but in fields that do not block my agents and thus dies on my turn.
(I will try to print log etc. next time)

A graphics issue (hope posting screen shots is okay), notice the slightly off numbers on the zoomed in card on the left.



I played a few games with the sample decks and it is a lot of fun  Grin

Edit.: Nothing indicates that a card is stunned ( I assume a description of what lethal, stun etc. actually do will be available later.) Is stun supposed to last for more than one turn? I am unsure if it was stun or smoke grenade that hindered agents from hacking for several turns..
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 12:17:06 pm by mkbonde » Logged
Gareth
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2013, 12:20:52 pm »

Thanks, that's definitely a bug.

AI applies a heuristic to work out what to do next. It looks at each card it can play, for each target it can play it against, and checks what the board state will look like if it does that. It "ranks" these states by a number of factors, including what the OP situation will look like in the next turn, after the enemy attacks. It's supposed to rank a situation where the total OP it predicts you will have as the worst of all options.

But I may have fucked up a calc somewhere.

Text rendering issue will be easy enough to nail.

Glad you're having fun!  Grin
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2013, 12:39:53 pm »

Another thing... I think it would be good to show the armor rating the cards have.
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