Iron Tower Studio ForumsRPGThe Shelter - Official Dead State Forum (Moderators: Brian, Caidoz, DrunkZombie, Christina, Jonathan, SunwardMold)3/19 Monday Design Update - Kickstarting a Kickstarter Discussion
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Povuholo
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« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2012, 06:25:30 pm »

I guess it's rather important to explain Dead State properly. Last thing you want is for people to watch the video and go 'Oh it is another zombie game, how is that original' before clicking it away.


Ideal pledge time? No idea. Maybe a week before the Wasteland 2 one ends, so you can get a shoutout from the other Brian for some extra attention.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 06:27:36 pm by Povuholo » Logged
Goweigus
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2012, 07:40:26 pm »

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-We’re planning on showing off some of the gameplay we think represents the game. What would you like to see most to feel confident about contributing to the game? (Please don’t describe a fully complete game.)
good example of a tough choice with possible responses (possibly with info such as gains or losses in food, lives, approval, whatever) in a good format/ui maybe the amount of info changes based on difficulty level (hardcore you just have to have a good idea of what is going on and how things work)
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-When would you want Dead State out by at the latest? (Keep in mind, no amount of money can make 10 people do the work of 25.)
December 31st 2013

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-What kind of rewards would you like to see and for how much? (For example, higher level sponsorship might get your portrait done up as a zombie or non-ally NPC featured in the game.)

If you can find a good price for putting ones likeness (face or name?) while making decent money for the time spent on it, go for it! I imagine almost everyone who will ever play this game will want to put their likeness into it, just like they did with Oregon Trail! Maybe a lower price gets you a copy of the game and a raffle ticket to win your likeness in the game, while a much higher price definitely gets you into the game.
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-How often would you want to see updates and what would you like us to showcase? (Again, keep in mind, doing updates takes time out of our schedule.)
weekly updates, especially if you intend on running with kickstarter

I believe its been said we won't be able to edit character names in gameplay. This is the only way!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:48:41 pm by Goweigus » Logged
Blodhemn
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« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2012, 09:19:06 pm »

-What would you like to see most to feel confident about contributing to the game? - The combat, and just a small example of the survival element and or dialogue system in action.

-When would you want Dead State out by at the latest? - 2014/15

-What kind of rewards would you like to see and for how much? - Soundtrack, hi rez artwork or something simple like that.

-How often would you want to see updates and what would you like us to showcase? - Once every month or two is enough, - showcase anything: game mechanics, screenshots, artwork, inspiration, current influences driving the game or even general frustrations. An update, no matter how little is better than nothing.

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Lemonhead
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« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2012, 11:48:06 pm »

No feedback, just take my money!  Panic (that's the emoticon for Kickstarter fever)
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AdrianWerner
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« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2012, 12:42:53 am »

Also, a commitment to platforms other than PC would help - if you can say you'll port the game to iOS or something (after funding reaches a cerain amount), that should get people interested - Mac/Linux at the very least, given how widespread those systems have become.
Mac/Linux is good idea, but iOS would propably do more harm than good, as most hardcore folk (and those are the ones who fund kickstarters) would assume the game would be dumbed down somehow. What's worse, they would feel that if they donated their money wouldn't go fully into making their game, but into making iOS port. Not to mention, it would take a lot of resources, which I don't think the team has to spare. Make a computer game first and only after you're done start thinking about other platforms.

Anyway, I would wait till Wasteland 2 kickstarter is done to not compete with them directly. Second, a big video, with both team members talking and showing who they are and what awesome games they worked on before, as well as detailed video demonstrating how the game looks, feels and plays. The second part would really distinguish Dead State from Wasteland 2, Banner Sage or Double Fine project and help convince people to pledge their money.

Physical stuff is extremely important for getting higher pledges. Wasteland 2 is good guide for that. People want posters, boxes etc. If they cost a lot make the pledge high, but this is the stuff that makes a lot people pledge more than 15$.Also..beta access. And digitial copy for everyone who pledges enough to get boxed copy.

Also..in-game rewards. I think it would be cool to name zombies (nametags, drivers licenses, dogtags, journals left before they died etc) after people with high enough pledges. THis method is cool and rewarding, but doesn't break the immersion of the game. .

Release date? 2013 the latest. People need to know this is a real project and they're not funding vaporware.

Also, once kickstarter launches make regularu updates, new videos, post art etc, without it the support quickly fizzles out after the initial explosion of exctitement.

And last thing: Dead State's development problems might put people off and make them doubt the team can complete the project. THat's why it's extremely important to be clear about how much is completed, how much will making the remaining stuff take, how many people are on the team etc and make clear that if it's kickstarted successfuly the whole team will work on finishing the game.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 12:49:35 am by AdrianWerner » Logged
Zombra
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« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2012, 01:50:19 am »

You might also want to look at the preorder model Xenonauts is using.  It is kind of like Kickstarter without being Kickstarter.  This guy has a real knack for anticipation.

Basically they are taking direct preorders on an individual basis instead of grouping them into one huge thing.  Apparently they already have over 5,000 preorders (including one from me) at $20-30 each.  Look on their forums and you see a couple thousand users and all the ones who post seem to have the premium ($30) forum tag, despite the fact that the higher level investment really gets you nothing.  Something to think about.

I don't know; maybe Kickstarter would be smarter, easier to publicize, and guarantee an all-or-nothing bigger sum up front (which hopefully would be "all").  I'm just throwing it out there.
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micks
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« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2012, 02:47:58 am »

I believe the crucial thing is to ask for the "right" amount of money, i.e. such as will give you something like 99% certainty of delivering at the proposed deadline (preferably no later than by the end of 2013, but that really depends on how far along you are, etc.) and at the same time feel justifiable to the contributors.

The presentation should combine past credentials (Troika, Obsidian work, AoD) with explanation of what makes the game unique (rather than any particular feature). The current Banner Saga project is a good example, and the circumstances are somewhat similar (as is most probably the budget, too).

Looking forward to contribute.
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Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
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« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2012, 04:20:07 am »

You might also want to look at the preorder model Xenonauts is using.  It is kind of like Kickstarter without being Kickstarter.  This guy has a real knack for anticipation.

Basically they are taking direct preorders on an individual basis instead of grouping them into one huge thing.  Apparently they already have over 5,000 preorders (including one from me) at $20-30 each.  Look on their forums and you see a couple thousand users and all the ones who post seem to have the premium ($30) forum tag, despite the fact that the higher level investment really gets you nothing.  Something to think about.

I don't know; maybe Kickstarter would be smarter, easier to publicize, and guarantee an all-or-nothing bigger sum up front (which hopefully would be "all").  I'm just throwing it out there.
It should be pointed how that model works just cause they actually have a beta build to lure paying customers... And beside that I would guess that probably a proper Kickstarter could give them more exposure of what they have now. But well, what's done is done, as they say.

Anyway, I'd like to join those stating that if you're not a big name in the industry, it's very important to show off as much as you can to convince backers that this is a solid project, with good chances to see an actual release.
Also, as Brother None said, constant updates on the Kickstarter page would be essential to keep the interest (and press exposure) high over the whole period the funding attempt is running.

EDIT: last detail: for the goal, I'd suggest to aim as low as you realistically can, and then eventually enjoy every penny above that threshold (it's not really an uncommon thing for popular KS projects to top their goal by large amounts).
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 04:25:55 am by Tuco Benedicto Pacifico » Logged
Dean101
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« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2012, 04:32:05 am »

The guys over at The Banner Saga, seem to be getting a pretty good buzz with a promotional poster for the game, at the $50.00 tier. A lot of people seem to want it. Many people are upping their donation level, just to get it. (including me.) I'm sure you guys could come up with something cool as well. People love zombie posters. I've got the perfect place for one.

I would promote the fact that the game has a high re-playability factor, and can be a very different experience on each play through. Haven't seen anyone mention that.    


Also:

You and Annie's credentials as developers is a given, but I would also mention some of the Old School Games that you really liked to play, and why you liked them.

 OSG that you take inspiration from as developers.

The combat system is similar to ..........
Character creation and development is like ...............
The tone of the dialog is inspired by ........  

This one might be kind of tough, Dead State being a pretty unique kind of game, but try to compare it to an OSG that it most closely, overall, resembles. So people can identify with it.

[psychology101]

 The better people can relate, and identify, with you guys as developers and FELLOW GAMERS, the easier it will be to get their support.[/psycology101]

I know most of this stuff is pretty obvious, but some of it I haven't seen mentioned, and just wanted to try and contribute something I thought might help. Once you get the KS thing going, I'll take the easy way out, and contribute with cash.

Also, this is why I don't post more often.......it's like trying to read a shotgun blast.



 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 06:04:37 am by Dean101 » Logged
GhanBuriGhan
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« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2012, 06:31:51 am »

Good to see you back with an update. I hope the newfound momentum will be here to stay, of course!


-We’re planning on showing off some of the gameplay we think represents the game. What would you like to see most to feel confident about contributing to the game? (Please don’t describe a fully complete game.)
- Combat, with different weapon classes, showing off the zombie/noise mechanic
- Interaction with NPCs at the shelter, showing dialog, and how decisions have consequences, maybe a glimpse of shelter management.
- Inventory management, highlighting the importances of equipment, weapons, etc. and how it interacts with character stats.


-When would you want Dead State out by at the latest? (Keep in mind, no amount of money can make 10 people do the work of 25.)
Personally i don't care. I have a RPG backlog that will last me for years. But within two years would be a good goal, shorter if the kickstarter is really successfull allowing you to concentrate fully on the game.


-What kind of rewards would you like to see and for how much? (For example, higher level sponsorship might get your portrait done up as a zombie or non-ally NPC featured in the game.)
I think the models put forth by Banner Saga and W2 seem to be good templates.


-How often would you want to see updates and what would you like us to showcase? (Again, keep in mind, doing updates takes time out of our schedule.)
Monthly. Screens and even better, videos of the game would be interesting. I always enjoyed your past monday updates, so stuff in that vein would also be appreciated.

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Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
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« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2012, 06:48:17 am »

-How often would you want to see updates and what would you like us to showcase? (Again, keep in mind, doing updates takes time out of our schedule.)
Monthly. Screens and even better, videos of the game would be interesting. I always enjoyed your past monday updates, so stuff in that vein would also be appreciated.
Monthly updates could make sense as a general rule during development, but during the Kickstarter run (which lasts for one or two months at most) they should definitely boost their output of updates to 5-7 days delays.
It's just a fact that on KS the audience's attention tends to fade away after a couple of days and peaks again to some extent when there are interesting new updates.

Ideally, there should be some sort of weekly videoblog like the one that Rosen keeps up to date for Wolfire's Overgrowth. in case there isn't enough stuff to keep the pace with this kind of effort, even showing some new concept art, mock-up screenshot, or design concept here and there would help a lot.

People need to be convinced that the project is solid and that progress has a fine pace; when you ask for their money reassuring from time to time that "This isn't vaporware" isn't as good as it is when you just need a "Like" on Facebook or more hits on the official forum.
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GhanBuriGhan
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« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2012, 07:21:58 am »

-How often would you want to see updates and what would you like us to showcase? (Again, keep in mind, doing updates takes time out of our schedule.)
Monthly. Screens and even better, videos of the game would be interesting. I always enjoyed your past monday updates, so stuff in that vein would also be appreciated.
Monthly updates could make sense as a general rule during development, but during the Kickstarter run (which lasts for one or two months at most) they should definitely boost their output of updates to 5-7 days delays.
It's just a fact that on KS the audience's attention tends to fade away after a couple of days and peaks again to some extent when there are interesting new updates.

Ideally, there should be some sort of weekly videoblog like the one that Rosen keeps up to date for Wolfire's Overgrowth. in case there isn't enough stuff to keep the pace with this kind of effort, even showing some new concept art, mock-up screenshot, or design concept here and there would help a lot.

People need to be convinced that the project is solid and that progress has a fine pace; when you ask for their money reassuring from time to time that "This isn't vaporware" isn't as good as it is when you just need a "Like" on Facebook or more hits on the official forum.

Yes I agree with that, monthly was meant with regards to general updates.

I would certainly think its time well spent to make the kickstarter drive look professional. Having good footage of the game itself, or even better, a demo would certainly help as well. Having the AoD demo out should also help a bit, as there is quite a bit of overlap between both teams.

I also wondered whether Kickstarter allows to actually win investors (in the more classic sense of people looking to invest to make a profit)? E.g. would a high tier pledge (e.g. $5000) offering a return of investment after a certain time / certain number of units sold, plus tiered bonuses based on the actual sales / royalties? I half assume there are legal problems with such a setup, but I'm asking because while I think the people pledging $10000 for participating in a party and some trinkets and an in-game statue are nuts (or just way too rich), I would seriously think about investing a few thousand in a game, gambling on its success, so to speak.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 07:26:52 am by GhanBuriGhan » Logged

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GarfunkeL
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« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2012, 07:23:01 am »

Monthly updates during development works for me.

What BN said about Kickstarter.

Ideally I'd want Dead State in my hands tomorrow but I can wait until 2013. Or 2014, really.
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« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2012, 07:26:55 am »

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First off, apologies to everyone about the lack of updates lately. As is the case for many small projects without much in the way of funding, life and side projects/jobs get in the way of production… which is to say, not much was happening for a few months. But, in the last few weeks, the team has refocused their efforts and our build is finally seeing regular updates again. Our dedication to the project restored, it kinds of brings us to an interesting dilemma – how do we keep the project going full-speed while still being able to pay for development essentials like electricity, software licenses, and beer?

That's why i launched at first the DS poll about kickstarte, i knew something was wrong, lack of beer ? Is there something more terrible ?

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-We’re planning on showing off some of the gameplay we think represents the game. What would you like to see most to feel confident about contributing to the game? (Please don’t describe a fully complete game.)

A gaming live video would help a lot i think, putting your name in bold when you're mentionned, cause a great name from someone which is in the industry will always lead to more backers

-When would you want Dead State out by at the latest? (Keep in mind, no amount of money can make 10 people do the work of 25.)

Quote
-What kind of rewards would you like to see and for how much? (For example, higher level sponsorship might get your portrait done up as a zombie or non-ally NPC featured in the game.)

just ideas, i'm not a collector addicted of games
-10.000k: 20 digital games, all free dlc for those 20 copies (dlc ftw XD), a giant painting of you rotting, a diner with the crew made of chips and beers, all dead state goodies (shirts, hoodies, underwear) etc, your picture and name as an npc

-5000: everything above minus the diner

-2000: everything above minus the npc name

-1000: everything above minus the npc picture

-500: everything above minus the painting

-200: the game, the ost, some goodies signed

-100: the game, the ost, pictures of devs cats signed by cats

-50: the game + ost

-less: the game

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-How often would you want to see updates and what would you like us to showcase? (Again, keep in mind, doing updates takes time out of our schedule.)

2/3 times a month, but i don't really need update,a s long as i know you guys are working on it.

If DS could be released in 2k12 it would be awesome, but first quarter 2k13 will be ok too
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Dean101
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« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2012, 07:27:49 am »

Speaking of Monday updates. I was just reading your Survival Training thread, and had a promotional idea.

 Make an..........Essential Zombie Apocalypse Survival Training Guide

It would make a cool little pamphlet/booklet to put inside the box, for one of the higher level tiers. You could also make a .pdf version for the Digital Deluxe download tier. You could leave space, so people can actually fill in the blanks. Maybe with a little mascot type character. Pauly/Patty Prepared.

There were a lot of great questions, and info. in that thread, and it would be a great tie in for zombie crowd.  

 If you don't like that idea:

Some of the questions could be used as loading screens, or it could be found in the game world, on a dead guy, that hadn't filled it out yet.  

Not sure how spoilerish a map would be. Might be a better option.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 07:35:47 am by Dean101 » Logged
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