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Author Topic: Let's play AoD!  (Read 562939 times)
Fosse
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« Reply #615 on: February 14, 2008, 02:23:52 pm »

The guildmaster asks that the spies be dead by the time the day is out.  Is this actually timed?  Or is it a typical RPG quest where you are told that something is urgent and then everyone waits for you in stasis to come along at your own pace and move the ball along?
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Morbus
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« Reply #616 on: February 14, 2008, 03:44:41 pm »

That's the typical shitty RPG quest, yes. I'm guessing that since he said it should be before the day was out, it *should* be before the day was out.

And since AoD looks good to me, I'm guessing I'm correct.
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jeansberg
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« Reply #617 on: February 14, 2008, 03:52:23 pm »

I think it basically means you fail the quest if you leave the region.
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cardtrick
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« Reply #618 on: February 14, 2008, 04:31:52 pm »

AoD doesn't have time or a day/night cycle . . . so I suspect it's either one of those suspend-your-disbelief, finish-it-anytime quests (which I don't actually mind at all unless it's a huge plot point or just really stupid, like in BG2), or that jeansberg is right.
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Vince
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« Reply #619 on: February 14, 2008, 04:42:29 pm »

We don't have day/night cycle, but we do have night maps for certain quests. We don't have time limits, so your active *local* quests are open as long as you in the location. When you leave it (and you'll be warned that travel will take many days, so if you need to take care about some urgent shit, you better do it first), all your local quests will be auto completed and default outcomes will be chosen.
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Fosse
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« Reply #620 on: February 14, 2008, 04:48:14 pm »

I forgot about the no day/night cycle.  Vince, that sounds great, striking a good balance between believable questing and reasonable gameplay. 
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Vince
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« Reply #621 on: February 14, 2008, 05:00:57 pm »

That was the idea. Timed quests usually just add pressure, but that pressure isn't fun. It's like being almost late for an appointment and looking at your watch all the time.

Quests that could be completed any time are silly. "Uh, hi there, good sir, you may not remember me, but you asked me to help you find your little boy a few years ago. I passed those caves yesterday and found this skull. It's been cracked open and gnawed on, so it's hard to be sure, but I think that's your son Johnny. You did mention a reward, didn't you?"

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Morbus
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« Reply #622 on: February 14, 2008, 06:32:49 pm »

We don't have day/night cycle
Ah, that's another story Tongue

all your local quests will be auto completed and default outcomes will be chosen.
How exactly will that auto complete work?
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Euchrid
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« Reply #623 on: February 14, 2008, 08:02:59 pm »

Default meaning always the same predefined outcomes?
Or is their some randomness or relation to options you've already taken?

I like the sound of this, it gives the game world a greater sense of life.

On return, will you have the option of asking about the quest? Would be nice for the NPC to recount some details of its completion, or at least its outcome.
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Vince
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« Reply #624 on: February 14, 2008, 08:54:42 pm »

How exactly will that auto complete work?
Very simple, actually. Let's say you were asked to assassinate the Imperial Guards' commander (see the RPG Vault article), but you felt the urge to explore the great outdoors and left without saying good-bye to the commander.

Now, here how this quest goes. You can either kill the commander or double-cross the assassins and bet your future on the Imperial Guards. If you kill the commander, the guards hit back. With you the assassins have a chance to defend and counter-attack, which may even result in the Imperial Guards losing Teron for good. The back-up assassin still kills the commander, but since you weren't around, your assassins buddies were overrun and killed and the guild was burned down. That's what you see and are told when you come back. If only they had more men that night.... If only...

Default meaning always the same predefined outcomes?
Yes.

Quote
I like the sound of this, it gives the game world a greater sense of life.
Definitely. It shows that life goes on and if you can't do it, someone else will, but the outcome might be different.

Quote
On return, will you have the option of asking about the quest? Would be nice for the NPC to recount some details of its completion, or at least its outcome.
Yes.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 08:57:30 pm by Vince » Logged
Priapist
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« Reply #625 on: February 14, 2008, 10:50:50 pm »

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That was the idea. Timed quests usually just add pressure, but that pressure isn't fun. It's like being almost late for an appointment and looking at your watch all the time.

I'm not sure that's an unequivocal truth. Dead Rising was all about time, and a major part of what made it more interesting than a straight up zombie killfest was working in and around those time pressures. I'd agree that it wouldn't be much fun in AoD's context but I don't think it can be blanketed as "time pressure = no fun".

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cardtrick
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« Reply #626 on: February 14, 2008, 11:44:52 pm »

Quote
That was the idea. Timed quests usually just add pressure, but that pressure isn't fun. It's like being almost late for an appointment and looking at your watch all the time.

I'm not sure that's an unequivocal truth. Dead Rising was all about time, and a major part of what made it more interesting than a straight up zombie killfest was working in and around those time pressures. I'd agree that it wouldn't be much fun in AoD's context but I don't think it can be blanketed as "time pressure = no fun".

Yeah . . . I would say that time pressure is usually annoying, but by no means always. If the time crunch forces the player to make interesting decisions, then it is worth having, but this requires a conscious choice in the initial design of the game. I would say that having one or two timed side quests in a game that is otherwise time-independent is almost always a bad idea, but having time be important for every quest could be worthwhile. I liked Fallout's main quest time limit, especially on my first playthrough when I had no real idea how long it might take to find the water chip -- it added a lot of tension and atmosphere, and brought focus to the game. I sometimes neglected trivial sidequests in the interest of saving the vault before time ran out, which helped with the feeling of playing a real character. On the other hand, Fallout 2's occasional timed quests (in particular, having to travel back to the Den to find the farmer scared off by the ghouls before the month ran out and the Modoc-ians attacked the ghoul farm) were just annoying. That quest forces the player to backtrack, which is especially annoying on subsequent playthroughs when I would rather do things in an efficient order to minimize the boring parts of the game and get to my favorite moments. It feels like a chore, which is not a good thing.

On further reflection, this should probably have been in the RPG Design forum, since it has no bearing on AoD. I think AoD's system sounds great and makes a lot of sense -- in fact, now I'm wondering why it's not the standard solution to the timing problem. Having all local quests expire when you leave the area just makes sense.
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Fosse
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« Reply #627 on: February 14, 2008, 11:55:19 pm »

I don't think having time limits is bad design, and can often enhance the pressure in a fun way and increase the feeling of authenticity to a game world.  A sense of urgency is never a bad thing when we're dealing with important matters, and the quests -- main and otherwise -- that the player takes on should be important. 

But having quests pretend to be time sensitive while actually flagrantly holding still and waiting for the player (Oblivion's Main Quest) is not fun, not realistic, and not entertaining at all.  The AoD approach sounds like a good one. 

And I vote we go to the market.
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Morbus
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« Reply #628 on: February 15, 2008, 03:30:15 am »

For me, time limits are good because they add consistency. But when games are stupid and make time run faster than in real life, it's very bad. Most RPGs do that, and it's just stupid as hell, just a way of showing the player the prettiness of day/night cycle. It's stupid, and the stupidest thing is that the game is designed according to that. If I want time to go faster, I sleep or wait, that's what I do. I don't want to feel pressure because the sun has just rose and in two hours it will be night again and I'm in a hurry. That's retard.

Since AoD has none of that, it's good for me.
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caster
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« Reply #629 on: February 15, 2008, 04:37:43 am »

I like a little presure sometimes. For me the most important thing is the backstory or rasoning behind a quest or a mission.

If some kid got lost in some caves and i have a mission of finding him then i expect to find his little skull if i dont do anything for ten days. (he could have found a little water pool and stayed barely alive so long).

If i have a mission of killing (silently or unobtrusively) some NPC before that legion comes to town and he gives them some info my employer wouldnt like to be known i fully expect to have some time barrier to run against.

But not a short one like 2 days or something like that. In each of these examples time for completion of these missions can be prolonged by factors of coincidence outside our or "screenplay" control. And serve as excuses of having a longer time to do it.
If you save the kid right away there would be no mention of water and if you come late he would be "barely alive" and possibly come down with some sickness later on which would lead you on another little mission if you want (going back to the caves to find samples of those nasty fungi that made little boy sick and then discovering something interesting and...etc)

The Legion could be sidetracked by number of things, from bad weather to some bandit atacks (you aranged for?) or some badly thought out rebelion in some villages along the way (because you destroyed winter supplies or sent missinformation or just planted a few murders as if they were done by men from the other village).

This is the way i like timed quests to work. With a little interactivity in the whole process.

But anyway i prefer even a few set in stone - short of time type of these quests because they increase the sense im moving inside the world here time waits for no man.

But only if the story itself requires such logic to those quests.
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