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Author Topic: Let's play AoD!  (Read 566710 times)
zhirzzh
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« Reply #540 on: February 07, 2008, 12:55:23 am »

2. If we go to the market first and Feng wants money to look over the map, we have to wait until after the mission. I would like to find out about the map before the mission, to get as much content as possible before the next debate about assassin tactics and willingness to leave rooms starts.
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« Reply #541 on: February 07, 2008, 02:01:54 am »

Market place, let's see more of the city and people before doing another mission.
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Morbus
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« Reply #542 on: February 07, 2008, 05:08:29 am »

Question:

About those railroaded dialogs with only one option. Does the dialog option change according to our stats? I mean, different characters would say different things, even if without an option from the player...
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Vince
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« Reply #543 on: February 07, 2008, 08:18:46 am »

Of course not. What would be the point? Options should be meaningful. Using stat checks to say "where is my money?" in seven different ways would be silly.

We have a lot of "railroaded" one-response "flavor" dialogues to show believable conversations between characters and give you something amusing to read. Let me illustrate:

Let's say you decide to visit lord Antidas and discuss politics and matters of fashion with him. Dellar, his chief enforcer, major domo, and a man of many questionable talents stops you:

I'm here to see lord Antidas.
Of course, master. Lord Antidas is expecting you.
He is?
No. Do you really think that our lord has never seen a peasant and wants to meet one? Get lost.
I'm not a peasant.
Well, you certainly don't look like a lord. So, what's your business with the lord, peasant?         
         
1. [persuasion] I *am* a lord. Call me a peasant one more time and I'll cut your insolent tongue off!
2. Step aside before I lose my patience.
3. My name is….
Nobody. That's who you are, peasant. Now answer my question.
                                                      
Master Feng, the loremaster, sent me to see lord Antidas.
He did, didn't he? Well, let me tell you how things work here. I’m the one who decides who gets to see the master. Call it a perk of my position. So far you've failed to convince me that you really need to see lord Antidas. Am I making myself clear?
Master Feng assured me that this parchment is valuable and that Lord Antidas will want to see it.
That's Master Feng's job to assure people that their junk is valuable, and it's my job to get proper tributes from those who seek an audience. Am I getting through here?
How much do you want?
You don't have that much, peasant, which doesn't mean that you are completely useless. I'll give you a choice. I have two problems. Help me with one and I’ll let you in and maybe even put in a good word for you.
Don't you have your own people for that?
Good question. You see, my people are valuable, while you, to put it bluntly, are not. Don't worry, I'm a good judge of talents, and since I don't see any, your tasks will be relatively simple.
First problem. House Aurelian is digging into some old ruins not far from Teron. Before we decide on an appropriate response to this provocation, we need to know what exactly they are doing there. Any questions?
How would I do that?
I don't know. Kill them all - that would certainly solve our problem: "a mentally unstable peasant has slaughtered our noble brethren in cold blood".  That would be a good headline, don’t you think? However, since the odds of that are small, we’ll have to settle on something more realistic. There are many people involved. Talk to them, pay them, beg them to tell you. You are good at begging, aren’t you?
What was the other problem?
Well, if you didn't like the first problem, you are definitely not going to like the second one. It involves raiders who captured a noble from our House. We need somebody to investigate that, see if the noble is still alive, and find out what they want.
Didn't they tell you what they want?   
They did send a messenger, but we killed him too quickly – too much enthusiasm can be a bad thing, so I wouldn't want to send one of my own men there. Go and take a look.      
 
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Scott
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« Reply #544 on: February 07, 2008, 11:18:24 am »


The Ready for more work? paragraph threw me off a bit but after re-reading it I realized he was doling out orders to three of us.

Starting a new line every time a new person is addressed would help to make it clearer.

How about square brackets around actions?  Quotes are even uglier than asterisks, and I have to repeat that since spoken dialog is the default content of dialog windows, the actions should be tagged, not the dialog, because actions are the exception.

Love that chat with Dellar, all except the word "headline".  It's an anachronism since it directly references newspapers.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 11:21:59 am by screeg » Logged

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xenocide
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« Reply #545 on: February 07, 2008, 12:49:28 pm »

I agree with Cardtrick, not a big fan of the asterisks and I like the idea of quotes.

I also had to look at AoD16.jpeg a couple of times to see exactly what was going on.  I assume that after you ask about the map you are totally ignored?  I have to admit I double checked to see if I missed a screen somewhere.  If this seems like too much hand holding to most people, you could certainly leave it as is.  However, I think some acnolegment of the question would be better, even if it is not verbal.  ie [As you hold out the map Neleos looks you in the eye and moves on to other matters as if you had not spoken] or "Do I look like a damn loremaster to you?!"  Perhaps even a small "Neleos ignores your question" in the lower left screen below "you gain 150 imperials"  Just my opinion.

As for what next I say buy a freakn' dagger and on to the spies.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 12:52:48 pm by xenocide » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #546 on: February 07, 2008, 12:55:07 pm »

I also had to look at AoD16.jpeg a couple of times to see exactly what was going on.  I assume that after you ask about the map you are totally ignored?
I was too lazy and skipped a screen. For the record, Neleos says: "I'm not good at these things. Ask Feng, the loremaster. He should know."

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xenocide
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« Reply #547 on: February 07, 2008, 12:57:18 pm »

I also had to look at AoD16.jpeg a couple of times to see exactly what was going on.  I assume that after you ask about the map you are totally ignored?
I was too lazy and skipped a screen. For the record, Neleos says: "I'm not good at these things. Ask Feng, the loremaster. He should know."



Cool beans.  Ignore the middle of my post an move on!
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zhirzzh
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« Reply #548 on: February 07, 2008, 01:28:54 pm »

Love that chat with Dellar, all except the word "headline".  It's an anachronism since it directly references newspapers.

Don't use the word anachronism. The game is roman influenced not based. It's possible that Vince had newspapers reach the level of development where people could first refer to headlines long before it happened in the real world.
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cardtrick
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« Reply #549 on: February 07, 2008, 01:31:16 pm »


How about square brackets around actions?

Square brackets are already being used for stat/skill checks. Since these checks frequently occur in the same line as actions, you would run into situations like:

1. Alright, fine, I was just leaving. [Leave out the open door.]
2. [Dexterity] [Leap over the guard's head, grabbing his helmet as you do.]

It's not awful, but I think that dialog option 2 looks kind of dumb. I'd certainly prefer square brackets to asterisks, but I prefer quotes.
 
Quotes are even uglier than asterisks

What? Do you read books? Quotes are used absolutely everywhere, in respectable printed literature, in movies, in games, in advertisements, everywhere. Asterisks are used for LARPing on web forums, chat rooms, and instant messengers.

and I have to repeat that since spoken dialog is the default content of dialog windows, the actions should be tagged, not the dialog, because actions are the exception.

You would have a point, except that:

1) In the dialogs we've seen so far, actions are frequent enough not to be considered an exception. No, they're not the majority, but they're a very sizable minority.

and

2) It's standard English to put quotes around spoken dialog and nothing around actions or descriptions. We're all used to it, it would be completely unnoticable and intuitive, and it looks good.

Love that chat with Dellar, all except the word "headline".  It's an anachronism since it directly references newspapers.

Good call.
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TheLostOne
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« Reply #550 on: February 07, 2008, 02:18:54 pm »

Quote from: Neleos
I'm not good at these things. Ask Feng, the loremaster. He should know.

I'm not good at these things?  What things? Maps?  Conversations?  The guy sounds like an idiot if that's the real line. 

How about: "What do I look like, a scholar?  Go bother the loremaster if you want a geography lesson."  or something similar.

Edit: Or "What do I look like, a loremaster?  Go bother Feng if you want a geography lesson." if you want to get Feng's name out there.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 02:28:38 pm by TheLostOne » Logged
cardtrick
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« Reply #551 on: February 07, 2008, 02:38:51 pm »

Edit: Or "What do I look like, a loremaster?  Go bother Feng if you want a geography lesson." if you want to get Feng's name out there.

Huge improvement -- great call.
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GhanBuriGhan
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« Reply #552 on: February 07, 2008, 03:02:12 pm »

I too was confused by the dialogue with the several guild members. I thought Dias! was just an exclamation, like "Jesus!" How about starting it with something like a mini introduction: "Titus, Dias, Coltan - Listen up! Ready for more work?"

I want to know more about the map. Talk to Feng.
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Vince
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« Reply #553 on: February 07, 2008, 04:10:24 pm »

Quote from: Neleos
I'm not good at these things. Ask Feng, the loremaster. He should know.

I'm not good at these things?  What things? Maps?  Conversations?  The guy sounds like an idiot if that's the real line. 
You show him an antique scroll. He looks at it and says that he isn't good at these things. "These things" is a reference to antique documents. You may not like the line and prefer another, but "I'm not good at these things" is a perfectly normal response that I've heard quite a few times in regard to software, taxes, gardening, etc. Googling it (I was surprised at your reaction and googled it out of curiosity) gives you 71,000 matches.

Quote
How about: "What do I look like, a scholar?  Go bother the loremaster if you want a geography lesson."  or something similar.

Edit: Or "What do I look like, a loremaster?  Go bother Feng if you want a geography lesson." if you want to get Feng's name out there.
It's a simple question that doesn't call for a "fuck off" response.
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Vince
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« Reply #554 on: February 07, 2008, 04:18:32 pm »

I too was confused by the dialogue with the several guild members. I thought Dias! was just an exclamation, like "Jesus!" How about starting it with something like a mini introduction: "Titus, Dias, Coltan - Listen up! Ready for more work?"
Would you address your employees this way? "Jack, Sarah, Thomas - listen up!" A more realistic way is to call names and assign tasks. Originally, it was Dias, an Aurelian envoy..., but when it was shown at the Codex, people complained that coma implies that Dias is an Aurelian envoy.

The way I see it we have two options: write realistic conversations and always risk losing players a bit or write messages to the player disguised as conversations. 
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