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Author Topic: Let's play AoD!  (Read 567018 times)
galsiah
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« Reply #120 on: January 02, 2008, 11:20:51 pm »

That is a problem, but hardly an unsolvable one.
Sure, but where's the motivation to create the problem in the first place? There's nothing elegant about tying skill bonuses "into the lore" by having a "You clicked on a special lore book! - congratulations, have a skill point!" mechanic. You've put no gameplay incentive in reading/understanding the lore - only in clicking on a few books.

If you're advocating making player knowledge and understanding of the lore relevant to gameplay / skill utility, I'm right behind you. That'd be the ideal course - tying aesthetics and pragmatism together within the same activity. Having the pragmatic incentive on the clicking, and the aesthetic incentive on reading+understanding, does not do this.
The Morrowind method is therefore a bit crap: it works fine for lore fanatics (for whom the occasional skill bonus is just a nice extra) and fine for those obsessive powergamers who've become utterly divorced from sane entertainment (for whom any skill-point-hunt activity will do). I.e. it works for those players who had almost no need for a lore&gameplay-bonus tie-in in the first place. For all the players who are neither gripped by pure lore, nor by pure gameplay bonuses, it achieves little: there's no pragmatic incentive to actually read the lore, and no aesthetic value in the skill-point hunt.
If it's aiming for an elegant tie-in, it's missing it.

I'd guess+hope that AoD is mostly doing things better already: the history/lore/background the player reads ought often to be interesting in itself (aesthetic points), and useful information on which to base significant decisions (pragmatism points). With this kind of combination, everything is tied into the same process - not just to vaguely connected processes.


Quote from: Vince
You start with a scroll, and when you go to the loremaster, you get an extra dialogue option:...
Sounds good - a bit of flavour without needless time-wasting.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2008, 11:35:04 pm by galsiah » Logged
roshan
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« Reply #121 on: January 02, 2008, 11:34:25 pm »

This sounds annoying to me. It was fine for Fallout, where most weapons could hold at least 6 rounds, but for a bow or crossbow that can only hold one arrow? I don't know.
We'll consider it. We split using bows/xbows into shooting and reloading to reflect the difference between two weapon types. This way you can carry a loaded xbow, quickly pull the trigger and switch to another weapon without reloading the xbow.


Couldnt you implement a "reload and fire" option, just to make things a bit easier for the player? The "reload and fire" option could use whatever ammo the player selected last. Of course, players will still need to reload manually outside of combat (for crossbows), if they want to use up leftover action points at the end of the round, or if they want to switch to a different type of ammo.

BTW, isnt carrying around a loaded crossbow a bit dangerous?
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jeansberg
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« Reply #122 on: January 03, 2008, 04:26:09 am »


BTW, isnt carrying around a loaded crossbow a bit dangerous?
Critical failure, anyone? Smile
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TheLostOne
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« Reply #123 on: January 03, 2008, 08:58:25 am »

About the book issue:

Can't remember if it was Divine Divinity or Sacred, but in one of those games there's a room with candles around a pentagram that you can light in a certain combination for a reward or quest (can't remember).

There was a book you find in that dungeon that when you opened it had a rough illustration of the pattern you needed to activate the symbol.

I think I opened all the books I came across in that game.  Some just had some cool artwork, some had fiction blurbs, and some had useful content for quests or hidden treasures.  That was a really cool way to have the player actually think about the books he opens.  None of them were 5 page long stories a la TES, so it wasn't too tedious to read them all.

Giving books a functional purpose based on content instead of just a bonus for opening them makes more sense to me.  If you can keep them interesting and consice you can introduce a lot of good lore and flavour into the game and still give the player an incentive to read them.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 09:00:39 am by TheLostOne » Logged
Morbus
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« Reply #124 on: January 03, 2008, 09:58:13 am »

BTW, isnt carrying around a loaded crossbow a bit dangerous?
It's pretty much as carrying a loaded shotgun or sniper. You don't carry it around like that, but you will when in battle.
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Sleet
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« Reply #125 on: January 03, 2008, 01:48:04 pm »

So what nefarious deeds is our assassin up to?
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jeansberg
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« Reply #126 on: January 05, 2008, 04:55:42 am »

Bump, dammit!
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Kingston
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« Reply #127 on: January 05, 2008, 07:04:08 am »

I think he's gonna update on Thursday.
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Paranoid Jack
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« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2008, 12:38:11 am »

I think he's gonna update on Thursday.

No that is when the game is due to be released.   Tongue

But I am curious as to why he hasn't started. Something about compiling numerous days back but not sure what is the hold up at the moment. Either way for those of you who are new(er)...   patience is one of the best virtues.
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Palmer Eldritch
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« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2008, 08:18:46 am »

I think it would be a good idea to just keep up the discussion like this while the LP progresses, and then compile it for easy reading when it's done
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Vince
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« Reply #130 on: January 07, 2008, 08:34:02 am »

But I am curious as to why he hasn't started.
Well, I made a deal with Nick (an honest programmer vs a PR whore) that we'll do the let's play thread but we'll be going over everything, cleaning things up, fixing whatever needs to be fixed and finishing things up, and thus posting screens from the final (don't read too much into it) Teron "build".

So, we had to go through the entire items list, tweak and redo some icons. Then we had several discussions about bolts and arrows: universal ammo or bolts/arrows, individual icons for poison, flame, hardened edge, etc or mini-icons on the existing icons or nothing, new "full shaft" icons or not, etc. These are minor things but they take time.

Then bows vs xbows mechanics. After several private and open forums discussions, we agreed on no reloads for bows (shooting includes loading), separate shoot/reload actions for xbows. Some tweaks are, obviously, necessary now. Etc.

So, when we suddenly stop posting in this thread, it's not because we lost interest or forgot about it, but because some unfinished stuff (that won't be even noticed by most of you) is in the way. And because Nick is way too fucking thorough. The guy should have been an accountant.

We shall continue today.   
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Paranoid Jack
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« Reply #131 on: January 07, 2008, 09:15:39 am »

And because Nick is way too fucking thorough. The guy should have been an accountant.

Is that the kettle calling the pot black?    lol

Either way no rush. Most of us have been lurking long enough to know better. I'm always left marveling at the persistence required to complete such a project. My hat is off to you and the team. And seeing the changes made over the last year (or two) have been reassuring. AoD will be done soon enough. If it plays as well as it looks and sounds it will be well worth the wait.
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VonVentrue
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« Reply #132 on: January 07, 2008, 12:13:18 pm »

Quote from: Vince
Then bows vs xbows mechanics. After several private and open forums discussions, we agreed on no reloads for bows (shooting includes loading), separate shoot/reload actions for xbows. Some tweaks are, obviously, necessary now. Etc.

Fair enough, I like the idea.

HEy... wheres the unarmed fighting skill ?  There arent any ? Is there an unarmed fighting after all ?
Quote from: Vince
No.

I apologize for raising this subject again, but I'd hereby like to emphasize the importance of unarmed fighting to the player's alter ego once disarmed in combat. Am I to  understand that once devoid of a weapon, the character becomes utterly defenseless?
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Vince
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« Reply #133 on: January 07, 2008, 12:18:02 pm »

I apologize for raising this subject again, but I'd hereby like to emphasize the importance of unarmed fighting to the player's alter ego once disarmed in combat. Am I to  understand that once devoid of a weapon, the character becomes utterly defenseless?
Without a weapon? Yes. Your character won't stand like an idiot though (like in the video), but to defend himself he/she will have to either pick another weapon from the inventory or from the ground.
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cardtrick
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« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2008, 02:14:54 pm »

Then bows vs xbows mechanics. After several private and open forums discussions, we agreed on no reloads for bows (shooting includes loading), separate shoot/reload actions for xbows. Some tweaks are, obviously, necessary now. Etc.

Great, this sounds like a good change that still maintains the desired gameplay differences between bows and crossbows while removing a lot of the annoyance. I like the idea that this Let's Play will act kind of like an early beta test, allowing you to fine-tune the game as it is played. I'm looking forward to more updates, but this kind of thing is definitely worth the hiatus. (And during the wait, we have Jaesun's excellent Ultima IX Let's Play on the Codex to keep us entertained.  Grin)
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