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Author Topic: R3 Dagger/Dodge Feedback  (Read 16527 times)
Silellak
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« on: January 30, 2010, 12:20:49 pm »

I wanted to go ahead and finish my Dagger/Dodge feedback.  I haven't gotten to the inn fight yet (because I want to wait til the Freezing AI Issue is fixed), but I have to say...

...Dagger/Dodge is so much better now.  You can no longer run around spamming Fast Attack to turn the game into Easy Mode.  The change to the passive effect for daggers is perfect, and really forces you to pick and choose what kind of attacks you want to use against what opponents.  I've started to use nets as well, because they're a fantastic way to start a fight (rather than waiting for the first person to charge forward).  The fight against Mack was much better as well, now that he uses nets and doesn't just attack you 12 times, breaching your armor with each attack.

I also like the changes to weapons, and how they give bonuses to Counter and Passive chance.  Out of curiosity, is there any plan to make those chances viewable by the player?  Or will that remain hidden?

I plan to play around with my other favorite builds, and maybe even try a blocker again, once the big R3 issue is fixed, but I wanted to go ahead and post this feedback ASAP, since the experience with the same build in R2 vs. R3 was so substantially different - for the better.
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Oscar
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2010, 12:48:57 pm »

I also like the changes to weapons, and how they give bonuses to Counter and Passive chance.  Out of curiosity, is there any plan to make those chances viewable by the player?  Or will that remain hidden?

Left-clicking the weapon slot shows a "chance to score a passive weapon effect" info in the textbox.

There's no way to see the chance to counter-attack, though.
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 01:27:54 pm »

More about dagger builds - they no more have "no-brainer" weapon such as Mack's knife in R2.
Now it's actually very useful to have 2 daggers - Mack's and Meteor Pugio for example.
Mack's knife great for aimed attacks due to small AP cost and Meteor Pugio for "regular" attacks.
One of my favourite combos with dagger build: disarm with Mack's knife (4AP), then 2 power attacks from pugio.

Great demo, thanks!
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Nick
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 01:33:15 pm »

Great demo, thanks!

Thanks to you too =) Please make sure to download a patch (in ~2hours) or an updated version of the demo (in ~4 hours) to get rid of the "freezing AI" bug.
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Silellak
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 05:51:49 pm »

Has anyone had any success using Aimed Attack: Torso to bypass armor entirely as a dagger-wielder?  So far I've had no luck doing so, but Mack the Knife pulled it off on a fairly regular basis.  Not sure if I'm just incredibly unlucky, or if there's an issue with the PC-side check for this attack.  Does Critical Strike factor in at all?
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Oscar
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 05:57:04 pm »

It's completely based on critical strike, so you need a good CS skill to get it.
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Silellak
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 06:44:39 pm »

It's completely based on critical strike, so you need a good CS skill to get it.
Ah, so that's why I never do it Smile

Out of curiosity, what is Mack the Knife's skill distribution?  Does he have better dagger/dodge/CS than any PC could have at that point in the demo?
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 07:28:30 pm »

Most probably. He is way more experienced than any PC. Same for any of the high tier guys.
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2010, 02:19:44 am »

Most probably. He is way more experienced than any PC. Same for any of the high tier guys.
Makes sense, was just curious.  Would be fun to see the skills on the higher-tier guys sometime, maybe after the release of the full game.
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 10:31:27 pm »

This is an old but relevant topic, hope that isn't frowned upon. Anyway, I got the urge to play through the combat demo again and I'm stuck and wouldn't mind some help. I'm using a dagger and dodge build and find the triarii impossible and have tried pretty much all I can think of. Have I screwed up my characters build or something? When I played it last with a crit/sword character I found it much easier. Screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/9XeMp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yeqyX.jpg

I usually start off the fight skipping my turns so I can first dodge the leader's absurdly powerful nets. After that I run up and either do a power attack with the meteor purg or two normal attacks with mack's knife. After that I've tried many things including whirlwind attacks, focusing each down with power attacks, taking off various bits of armour, reloading and putting a lot more points into dagger instead of dodge, etc and it doesn't help. Whenever I counter-attack it's usually either 0 or 1 damage, often "Masterful! Titus hits triarii for 0 damage!!" Mack the knife was also very difficult but not in the same league, I only managed to defeat him by pumping all available points into dodge to avoid his nets (god I hate nets).

Thanks.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 10:48:38 pm by Lgrayman » Logged
MaximillionMiles
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« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 10:51:14 pm »

The triarii are pretty heavily armored and your constitution is pretty low, which is troublesome.
Still, you could use plenty of aimed:torso attacks (or, if you have a good hit chance, aimed: head for the triarii leader) and MAYBE doing an aimed: leg attack on one of the dudes and backing off, when engaged in melee against all three.
Oh, and I'm not sure if the helmet is useful. I don't think many enemies use Aimed:head attacks.
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Lgrayman
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 11:02:22 pm »

Thanks for the tips. I thought aimed attacks relied upon critical hit chance to perform well with them? Either way, would it make that much difference from doing a power attack on the guy? 

I considered that my con might be the main culprit. Maybe that is the case. As for the helmet, I figured it would add overall damage resistance and not just for the head.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 11:04:03 pm by Lgrayman » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 11:09:37 pm »

As far as I understand it, Aimed: Torso halves the DR of the enemy (and that DR can be further reduced by the Weapon Mastery of daggers) while Aimed: Head uses the DR of the helmet instead of the armor, but you'll have to ask the experts/makers for confirmation on that.
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Lgrayman
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2011, 11:14:10 pm »

I just tried what you suggested and did it on my first try. Nice one. I don't know why, but I neglected aimed attacks and just assumed normal/power/fast/whirlwind attacks would be the only ones worth using. Definitely not the case, as I have had to learn the hard way.. thanks.

edit: Trying to do the inn fight now. I'm trying to decide which is worse: nets or the holocaust? It's a very challenging question. Easily the thing I hate most about AoD right now. I just got literally one hit away from completing it and then died; I swear it seems the game cheats and decides "Screw you, I'm going to let this guy hit for the first time at the worst possible moment and there's nothing you can do about it!"  I was planning to play a dagger-wielding assassin in AoD but I'm rethinking that now because holy shit do daggers suck, constantly counter-attacking for 1 damage if you're lucky even when the special effect kicks in, 0 90% of the time even with a very high dagger skill, and horrifically bad damage in general.

Attached the save file so someone can do it easily and tell me what I've been doing wrong. Is the low con the biggest problem with my character?

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 01:13:50 am by Lgrayman » Logged
Vahha
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 04:33:56 am »

In the beta dagger is imho one of the most superior weapons, thanks to Dagger Flurry attack type. Especially for minimum Str builds with high CS.
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,565.msg74685.html#msg74685

Reg. your build
1. I would rather fight naked - Dodge 300 is worth of sacrificing the flimsy armor.
2. fight holding both Mack the Knife's balanced Jambia and the Meteor Pugio in hands - just spam opponents with 2 AP Normal attacks with Jambia and with Power attacks with Pugio. Use the Jambia against lightly armored opponents and the Pugio against heavily armored ones.
3. tactics is important - try to avoid facing more than one opponent at a time and make the opponents block the entrance so others cannot enter, so you 'process' them one by one.
4. Invest the SP that you get into CS.
5. The best sequence for killing the opponents is probably: 1. the captain, 2. the crossbowman, 3. the spear wielder, 4. the axeman, 5. the swordsman, 6. the hammer wielder.

BTW, Power attacks have the highest chance of Armor piercing.

Also a good news for your build: in the demo such a build will have 30 HP points instead of 25.

Reg. the nets, I think in the beta your build (high Dex, high Dodge) would have significantly lower chances to get entangled.
Also, keep in mind that you could use nets very effectively in this fight. For example, in the beta three nets allow you to win an otherwise impossible 3 vs. 5 fight.

As far as I understand it, Aimed: Torso halves the DR of the enemy (and that DR can be further reduced by the Weapon Mastery of daggers) while Aimed: Head uses the DR of the helmet instead of the armor, but you'll have to ask the experts/makers for confirmation on that.
Exactly. See http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1208.0.html for more info.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 05:24:27 am by Vahhabyte » Logged

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