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Author Topic: Upcoming gameplay changes!  (Read 72414 times)
Sodomy
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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2010, 12:33:05 pm »

The random number generator they're using is fine.  Maxim- at a 70% chance, you should be missing almost a third of the time, which, given the number of attacks that happen in this game's combat, would qualify as "very often".
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JarlFrank
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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2010, 12:40:34 pm »

@ micks: Sure, we can add CS-based secondary effect to aimed:legs and arms. Currently CS applies only to aimed: head attacks. So, what should these affects be?

Wounds:
Arms - temporary attack penalty
Legs - Temporary dodge penalty.
Or indeed a permanent (for the combat) attack/dodge penalty. If you score a normal critical, or a head-critical, the impact is often extremely good. I don't see why these shouldn't be pretty good too. Of course you'd want to reduce the numbers a bit if the impact is permanent - perhaps a 5 or 10  point penalty? Those would start to get significant if they stacked, but conventional criticals 'stack': try fighting after you've been hit by five unaimed criticals.

A thought anyway. I think I'd like effects achieved with CS to have some real bite.

Eh, if they'd be really permanent you'd have people reloading whenever they recieve such a hit.
Make it last until the battle is over, maybe, or until you've rested/used a healing balm, but not permanent.
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Oscar
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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010, 12:43:59 pm »

@ micks: Sure, we can add CS-based secondary effect to aimed:legs and arms. Currently CS applies only to aimed: head attacks. So, what should these affects be?

Wounds:
Arms - temporary attack penalty
Legs - Temporary dodge penalty.
Or indeed a permanent (for the combat) attack/dodge penalty. If you score a normal critical, or a head-critical, the impact is often extremely good. I don't see why these shouldn't be pretty good too. Of course you'd want to reduce the numbers a bit if the impact is permanent - perhaps a 5 or 10  point penalty? Those would start to get significant if they stacked, but conventional criticals 'stack': try fighting after you've been hit by five unaimed criticals.

A thought anyway. I think I'd like effects achieved with CS to have some real bite.

Eh, if they'd be really permanent you'd have people reloading whenever they recieve such a hit.
Make it last until the battle is over, maybe, or until you've rested/used a healing balm, but not permanent.

Well... He said permanent (for the combat).... Smile
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catmorbid
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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010, 12:46:23 pm »

Well.. Instead of permanent we could say... Long term Tongue I.e. they last for quite a while, but the effect of one such wound isn't yet crippling, but upon stacking, they could become a real pain in the arse.
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JarlFrank
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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2010, 12:55:52 pm »

@ micks: Sure, we can add CS-based secondary effect to aimed:legs and arms. Currently CS applies only to aimed: head attacks. So, what should these affects be?

Wounds:
Arms - temporary attack penalty
Legs - Temporary dodge penalty.
Or indeed a permanent (for the combat) attack/dodge penalty. If you score a normal critical, or a head-critical, the impact is often extremely good. I don't see why these shouldn't be pretty good too. Of course you'd want to reduce the numbers a bit if the impact is permanent - perhaps a 5 or 10  point penalty? Those would start to get significant if they stacked, but conventional criticals 'stack': try fighting after you've been hit by five unaimed criticals.

A thought anyway. I think I'd like effects achieved with CS to have some real bite.

Eh, if they'd be really permanent you'd have people reloading whenever they recieve such a hit.
Make it last until the battle is over, maybe, or until you've rested/used a healing balm, but not permanent.

Well... He said permanent (for the combat).... Smile

Ah, sorry, missed the brackets.
When I read the word "permanent" something inside me goes *click*, wanting me to supply counter-arguments Tongue
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x4nti
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2010, 01:07:11 pm »

The THC-chart isn't plotted for values when def > atk, but I suspect that the 20% cutoff is still around? I'm not particular fond of it. It just strikes me as too unrealistic that a random bum will hit me one out of five times even if I'm the master of dodge. If it is an attempt to increase the necessity of armor, then I think you should look into other possibilities of making armor more important. For example, how about making the critical roll for all attacks and if the roll is successful then the attack would be harder to dodge/block? This way vsCritical would at least be more important, and since it's closely tied to heavy armor it might do the job.
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Oscar
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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2010, 01:13:00 pm »

Quote
The THC-chart isn't plotted for values when def > atk, but I suspect that the 20% cutoff is still around?

No, the min is back to 5%.
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x4nti
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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2010, 01:20:21 pm »

Quote
The THC-chart isn't plotted for values when def > atk, but I suspect that the 20% cutoff is still around?

No, the min is back to 5%.
Good Smile
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galsiah
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« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2010, 01:30:45 pm »

@ galsiah: everything will be considered, but we don't want to change too much in a single patch. We'll go in phases. If the current patch is accepted by the community, then we'll move to the second phase. Etc.
Sure - just so long as it's borne in mind that a change doesn't need to work well in isolation for it to work well with future planned changes. E.g. this patch may treat daggers too harshly, but that doesn't make the changes a bad idea - so long as they're well-motivated, and it's possible to see other, more interesting ways to improve daggers (e.g. counter-attack alterations, and/or other stuff).

Changing things a little at a time makes perfect sense - but you don't get to the highest peaks without pressing forward through a few valleys (unless the design landscape's topology is unusually friendly). The community don't have your knowledge of future plans, and overall perspective on the full game.

[[of course any non-trivial synergy changes can, and should, wait; that's a largely isolated system which should be fairly easy to improve on paper; combat system changes that all inter-relate are much more important to test right now]]


Oh and I'd like to say that all the proposed changes look good to me. Keep up the good work and wotnot.
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Zomg
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« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2010, 01:36:54 pm »

Consider reducing special chance a bit for lightest weapon class - to make medium a potentially interesting option.

Mediums get better counters and attacks of opportunity. If the fast attack of the light weapon isn't good enough to deal with DR the medium is probably going to be better ceteris paribus. I know I had to use the meteor mace rather than the light hammer to beat the inn fight with a hammer/blocker.
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caster
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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2010, 01:37:01 pm »

Im good with extended effects for legs and arms.

Quote
- add a CS check to aimed attack:torso. Currently, if you hit, you get the halved DR effect automatically, without any CS check. Basically, you trade 2 extra AP for extra damage. We're adding a CS check to give you a chance to ignore armor completely. So, now if you hit, you roll for CS, if failed - you get the "hit a weak spot" effect, if succeeded, you ignore armor completely.
Would this not make Aim:torso too powerful?
Its already giving us very high chance to hit and good damage as it is.



- Have you thought adding new passive trait to swords maybe?
I thought about possibility of getting one extra fast attack done automatically, like an interrupt.
And if you have more enemies in reach then it could hit another enemy.

Oh yes. Nets - make them reduce chance of getting an interrupt from that enemy.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 01:39:11 pm by caster » Logged

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Sodomy
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« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2010, 01:46:31 pm »

Vince: Could you explain exactly how the new formula works?  I played around with multiplying things * 1.25 and adding .2, but couldn't replicate your numbers.
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Frosty
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2010, 02:20:17 pm »

On shield splitting I wood recommend adding a splintering count to shields.

Buckler 1
Calvary shield 2
infantry shield 3
Tower shield 4

“The ax strikes your shield and you hear wood cracking the shield won't be able to take many hits like that”

You can have the shield fixed at the end of battle has part of your normal equipment maintenance,
or should you decide that you need a gold sink you can add resin that you would use to repair a cracked shield.
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Vince
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2010, 03:03:13 pm »

Vince: Could you explain exactly how the new formula works?  I played around with multiplying things * 1.25 and adding .2, but couldn't replicate your numbers.
Several columns (where I tried different formulas) are missing. The final formula is (1-DEF/(ATT+10))*1.25+0.2
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Scott
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« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2010, 03:14:42 pm »

I enjoy using nets but I think they're overpriced AP-wise for what you get.  After you hit, you have to go into your inventory to get a weapon to attack your opponent, so the functional cost of a net thrown against one opponent is 7AP, not 3.  And it only lasts for two turns.  I also think the to-hit penalty from shields shouldn't apply to net throwing.

Regarding shield splitting, what about only having a chance to split shields on Power/Aimed Attacks, and only being able to break a shield of a size class similar or smaller to the weapon, ie. a Marculus would have no chance to split an Infantry or Cavalry shield.

I really feel you shouldn't go the HP for shields route.  With all the good suggestions there's got to be a less tedious way.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 03:16:53 pm by Scott » Logged

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