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hilf
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« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2010, 05:01:12 am »

I fully agree with galsiah. I can`t add much more to what he said so I`ll just quote stuff I especially agree with:
Quote from: galsiah
In fact, I think it makes things worse gameplay-wise: if the +10 was helpful to balance through 100, 200 and 250 skill, it's almost certainly helpful to balance at 300 skill. Eliminating the +10 for a weapon once skill hits 300 is only likely to throw balance off, and make choices less interesting.
Quote
It makes:
10 points of difference at skill 30.
10 points of difference at skill 290.
0 points of difference at skill 300.
There's just no way you can rationalize that without appealing to magic.

Quote from: 34s Cell
Try thinking of it as a percentage bonus that steadily decreases as you upgrade the skill: at 30 it's 25% and 290 its a 3%, so it doesn't "suddenly disappear" but gradually becomes less useful.
But at slvl 300 it should also be 3% but is 0%.

With new CTH formula skill values over 300 shouldn`t break balance, because the higher skill lvl is, the lesser benfits are.
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« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2010, 05:25:06 am »

I agree with galsiah on this, and hilf also said the why. The skill level only sets the limits of the character's mastery, the limit to human ability. Exactly as abilities are maxed at 10. In my opinion, this should never rule out the possibility of external modifiers, that somehow break these rules of nature. This is one thing I hated about fallout: power armor didn't affect your strength in anyway, if you already had 10 str, while I think it should have.

It's the same thing here, with the skills and different skill modifiers from equipment. I don't see why the gladius would suddenly become less accurate when you reach the ultimate level of mastery. It doesn't really make much sense. Since there are not magic items or spells or whatever that could buff the character to great extent, I don't really see why the ability/skill cap should be the absolute cap, if there would be something to temporarily modify them over the maximum.
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ninjelephant
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« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2010, 10:07:29 am »

+1 for Galsiah.
If you have a swordsman with 200 skill and give him a rusty, old, cracked gladius or a brand new, out of a shop gladius he will be more deadly with the later one.
And this is like you say that THAT wouldn't make a difference for a master swordsman with 300 skill.
(well kinda, not an exact comparison but still..)
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Oscar
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« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2010, 10:10:09 am »

What's really funny is that not many people will reach 300 in a weapon skill in the game (looking at the builds in the demo, they don't even reach it there), and when they do, 10 points more or less isn't going to make any difference at all.
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ninjelephant
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« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2010, 10:12:47 am »

What's really funny is that not many people will reach 300 in a weapon skill in the game (looking at the builds in the demo, they don't even reach it there), and when they do, 10 points more or less isn't going to make any difference at all.

Don't take away our chance to complain  Grin
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galsiah
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« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2010, 11:07:22 am »

What's really funny is that not many people will reach 300 in a weapon skill in the game (looking at the builds in the demo, they don't even reach it there), and when they do, 10 points more or less isn't going to make any difference at all.
Sure, it's really a tiny issue - I don't think I've got an attack skill close to 300 while I've been playing (or I'd have been grumbling earlier Smile). I just think the current setup is on the wrong side of the tiny issue. Small gameplay downside; small that's-nonsense downside; upside??

It also might be a significant annoyance to any player who's crafted/acquired a good gladius, spent ages gaining skill points and pumping them into sword, only to get a moderate-and-unexpected "Fuck you" at the end when his gladius no longer provides any help. It's just needless.


I'd be inclined to adjust the weapon bonus away from a fixed +10 / +5 anyway. As has been pointed out above, it becomes less and less significant over time with the new THC calculation. I doubt that's a good thing. I'd rather that weapons had e.g. +5% +10%.

Alternatively, if you really do have some fetishistic attachment to 300 as overall maximum, just convert the weapon bonuses to penalties: Gladius -0%, Handar -5%, Scimitar -10% etc.. That way everyone is happy (until they realize the same thing is going on with block).
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GarfunkeL
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« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2010, 11:18:06 am »

As long as it still negates helmet/shield malus at 300, I'm happy.
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« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2010, 11:22:11 am »

As long as it still negates helmet/shield malus at 300, I'm happy.

It does.
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Ellorien
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« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2010, 12:07:52 pm »

OK. The original "edition" would not even start on my computer so I just deleted it. Finally, I got some time and downloaded the Enhanced Edition today and it worked. Yay! But my happiness was short-lived. Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight? I can increase other skills (Dodge etc) but when I click on + to increase, say, Spear, my available sp disappear with each click but nothing changes in the left column. Moreover, my agile light-armored char (12 AP) can use hasta (3 AP so he gets 3 normal attacks per round) only.  With a heftier spear (6 AP) in hand he just stands around and no amount of clicking makes him attack his opponent even once. And no, the game does not say, "you don't have enough AP", in case you assume I am a total TB combat noob. It does not say anything at all. These are the game breaking bugs, gentlemen.

I also dislike the RB click for movement - RB should be reserved for something else, e.g. description of items, status, "cancel command" etc. As is, it is unintuitive and frustrating. I lost lots of turns because of this.



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Nick
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« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2010, 12:26:19 pm »

Quote
These are the game breaking bugs, gentlemen.

Sorry, noone else experiences any game breaking bugs like that, so it must be you doing something wrong.

Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight? I can increase other skills (Dodge etc) but when I click on + to increase, say, Spear, my available sp disappear with each click but nothing changes in the left column.

Gets replaced by a synergy from another weapon skill?

Quote
Moreover, my agile light-armored char (12 AP) can use hasta (3 AP so he gets 3 normal attacks per round) only.  With a heftier spear (6 AP) in hand he just stands around and no amount of clicking makes him attack his opponent even once. And no, the game does not say, "you don't have enough AP", in case you assume I am a total TB combat noob. It does not say anything at all.

Not in range? Are there any % value near the cursor?

Quote
I also dislike the RB click for movement - RB should be reserved for something else, e.g. description of items, status, "cancel command" etc. As is, it is unintuitive and frustrating. I lost lots of turns because of this.

I don't think so, but that's just a personal preference.
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« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2010, 12:27:20 pm »

Ellorien, 2-handed spears don't work up close, you need to step back a square.
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Oscar
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« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2010, 12:30:09 pm »

Well, Nick beat me to it.
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hilf
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« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2010, 12:34:02 pm »

Quote
Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight?
Are You absolutely sure You can`t increase Your highest weapon skill too? If yes, there is something wrong.
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Wrath of Dagon
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« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2010, 12:38:43 pm »

OK. The original "edition" would not even start on my computer so I just deleted it. Finally, I got some time and downloaded the Enhanced Edition today and it worked. Yay! But my happiness was short-lived. Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight? I can increase other skills (Dodge etc) but when I click on + to increase, say, Spear, my available sp disappear with each click but nothing changes in the left column. Moreover, my agile light-armored char (12 AP) can use hasta (3 AP so he gets 3 normal attacks per round) only.  With a heftier spear (6 AP) in hand he just stands around and no amount of clicking makes him attack his opponent even once. And no, the game does not say, "you don't have enough AP", in case you assume I am a total TB combat noob. It does not say anything at all. These are the game breaking bugs, gentlemen.

I also dislike the RB click for movement - RB should be reserved for something else, e.g. description of items, status, "cancel command" etc. As is, it is unintuitive and frustrating. I lost lots of turns because of this.

You forgot to select spear as your weapon when you created your character, you must have sword as your weapon.

Actually that happens a lot, perhaps there needs to be a warning message if you leave the weapon selection defaulted to sword?

Edit: Did you read Vince's survival guide sticky?
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« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2010, 12:40:22 pm »

Or default it to nothing so you can't continue without picking one. I've never had a problem with it though.
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