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Author Topic: The option of lying and deceiving?  (Read 5758 times)
Bjergtrold
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« on: November 18, 2009, 07:56:30 am »

Hey,
This post is a question to you guys at double bear. So far, you seem to have been very comprehensive in the options you give us, regarding social interaction within the group.
However, I'd like to know if you program it so that it is possible to lie? Lets take an example, to better mediate what I'd like to be able to do in the game.

In my group I have a number of people. Peter and Lisa are two of them, and they are sibblings. Lisa has been bitten. We have no antibiotics, or maybe I've been bitten too, and want them for myself. She'll likely turn within a few days. Instead of just shooting Lisa, or locking her out with the zombies, could I do this:
Go look for ressources with Lisa, then when we're far away enough, shoot her, or make sure zombies get her.  ?
Will the others know what happened? Will they be in doubt? How do you keep track of what knowledge each character has?
Basically, is it possible to keep knowledge away from certain NPC's, and lie?

I hope it is something you have given thought, otherwise, I'd love for this to start a discussion on the topic.

A future fan, Bjergtrold.
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MaximB
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 10:16:49 am »

That's something that was missing in Fallout 1-2...
When you encounter a family in a distant land and kill them all, leaving no witnesses - for some reason everyone knows that you are a child killer and killed good people and your karma and reputation drops.
If you dig graves when none is watching they still know you are a grave digger.
Nothing escapes in the world of Fallout 1-2.

I off course prefer Bjergtrold's suggestion - more realistic.
 
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Gondolin
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 04:18:57 am »

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When you encounter a family in a distant land and kill them all, leaving no witnesses - for some reason everyone knows that you are a child killer and killed good people and your karma and reputation drops.

That could be explained within the game. Say the family in question overtook other travelers on the road and these travelers also see in the distance your heavily armed party moving to intercept. They hear the sound of gunfire and an hour later come across the remains of said family. Putting two and two together, they figure out your party killed the family. It doesn't even have to be 100% true, they'll still believe it and they'll tell everybody else about it. There's plenty of people in prison for things they didn't do. And you can't be absolutely sure there are no witnesses.

Still, I think this should be handled on a % basis. Not every family gets to have some travelers nearby to tell the tale.
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Stigandr
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2009, 10:54:25 pm »

I agree that travelers seeing you slaughter a family or a merchant is possible, but how possible would it be that they know you and won't mistake you for a roving band of brigands.
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Gondolin
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 08:33:06 am »

They don't have to know you personally. In Fallout 1 & 2, the party tends to stand out by being well-armed and armored, so your general description should bring up a "Yeah, I remember those" in the nearest town. Also, your party tends to visit all major locations in the wasteland, so many people have at the very least heard of you.
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MaximB
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 10:48:07 am »

@Gondolin : in this case I agree that it needs to be done via % as you said, but then the "traveling/wildlife/don't remember the skill name skill" needs to come in hand, it should help you determine if that family has "friends" who can snitch on you nearby - giving you the opportunity to get rid of them also.

But the game is already done long time ago and it doesn't seems like anyone would create a mod AND implant this idea.

Maybe for some other game...Wink
 
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Gondolin
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 06:51:20 am »

Quote
in this case I agree that it needs to be done via % as you said, but then the "traveling/wildlife/don't remember the skill name skill" needs to come in hand, it should help you determine if that family has "friends" who can snitch on you nearby - giving you the opportunity to get rid of them also.

Yup. „Outdoorsman” should let you know if there are people in the area. Other than the targets, that is.  Smile
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Brian
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 03:27:50 pm »

In my group I have a number of people. Peter and Lisa are two of them, and they are sibblings. Lisa has been bitten. We have no antibiotics, or maybe I've been bitten too, and want them for myself. She'll likely turn within a few days. Instead of just shooting Lisa, or locking her out with the zombies, could I do this:
Go look for ressources with Lisa, then when we're far away enough, shoot her, or make sure zombies get her.  ?
Will the others know what happened? Will they be in doubt? How do you keep track of what knowledge each character has?
Basically, is it possible to keep knowledge away from certain NPC's, and lie?

You can definitely lie or manipulate people based on certain skills. In your example above, yes, you could definitely take someone into the middle of nowhere and make them disappear, but there are consequences for when a member of the group dies, even if it's accidental - other members of the group tend to lose hope and friends or family of the deceased may cope in detrimental ways. If the player kills someone where there are no witnesses, then only the player will know the truth. Of course, if tensions get high in the shelter, then there are plenty of player decisions that they will call out and be angry about because there's no hiding a decision like rationing or publicly threatening popular members of the group. 
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Bjergtrold
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 07:54:03 pm »

I will say only this:    Awesome.
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DDToxic
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 02:30:25 pm »

Wow Brian if you really can make things like this it will be awesome!
I always wanted this in an RPG!
For the tension, you go away with Lisa and come back alone to the shelter... sure others will ask what happend, or am I wrong?
The more i read the more i weant to play the game!

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Janus
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2009, 02:42:33 pm »

You can definitely lie or manipulate people based on certain skills. In your example above, yes, you could definitely take someone into the middle of nowhere and make them disappear, but there are consequences for when a member of the group dies, even if it's accidental - other members of the group tend to lose hope and friends or family of the deceased may cope in detrimental ways. If the player kills someone where there are no witnesses, then only the player will know the truth. Of course, if tensions get high in the shelter, then there are plenty of player decisions that they will call out and be angry about because there's no hiding a decision like rationing or publicly threatening popular members of the group. 

This is epic win right here.
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