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Question: What do you think about Dragon Age?
90+ - Great
80-89 - Good
70-79 - Ok
60-69 - Mediocre
Less than 60 - Bad

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Author Topic: Dragon Age impressions  (Read 421302 times)
Vince
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« on: November 04, 2009, 11:49:38 am »

This is an epic (and hopefully, mature) tale of my Dragon Age adventures.

Day 1 - the Origin

The character system is very straight forward. Instead of INT governing both smarts and magic, which is something I've never liked, we now have Magic (definitely not the best name for a stat) and Cunning. The manual promises to surprise us with "[cunning]..." dialogue lines, which would be nice, and assures that Dragon Age isn't just about killing things and that dialogues do matter.

I've created a Noble human fighter, but I'll probably reconsider and go with a cunning rogue for my first playthrough to get the most out of dialogues. What I really liked is that my fighter got plenty of combat abilities to choose from: 2 warrior talent branches, 3 archery branches, 3 sword+shield branches, 3 dual wielding branches, and 3 two-handed swords branches; 4 talents per branch, which gives you 56 talents. The "same style" branches offer you different directions, supporting different styles (precision, raw power, getting through armor, etc).

It looks like the game uses a DR system for the armor. Better armor stops more damage (doesn't make you harder to hit, DnD style), weapons have "armor penetration" stat, etc. I like that a lot. Overall, it definitely feels like the game is well designed and that a lot of thought went into it. It is based on a lot of familiar concepts, but everything seems better, redesigned, and improved.

Even the auto-regeneration system, which was something I disliked from the moment I've heard about it, actually works very well and is a good feature that adds to the game instead of taking something from it.

In my Origin story my family's castle is attacked during the night, which means that I had to fight a lot of enemy troops. It was somewhat easy, even on Hard, but that's the Origin, aka the tutorial, so I'm not complaining. It's a real-time game, which means that you can't calculate every move and can't avoid taking damage. So, it can be done the hardcore way - you gulp potions, reload every few minutes, and look for safe places to sleep, or we can avoid all that boring, waste of my time crap and heal my character after a battle.

So far it's very enjoyable, but keep in mind that I played the game for less than 2 hours. I like the combat (flow, various options, the isometric perspective). I like the visuals. The castle looked a bit too generic overall, but the individual rooms were very well done and were very close to BG 2D environments (I'll post some screens when I get home).

The Human Noble's origin story is definitely "mature" - for the lack of a less overused word - and very Martin-esque. I did get one "persuasion" check, which gained me an ally during the castle fight. Not a big deal, but... The origin story is obviously linear and ends up with you having no choice but to join the Grey Wardens. The Codex crowd is in uproar over it, but let's be realistic, every story-driven game, no matter how amazingly awesome, will force you to do certain things and will not offer you the freedom to do whatever you want to do. So, either you start the game as a new recruit who's about to join the Wardens or the game shows how your character ended up as a new recruit and lets you play your background instead of letting you read about it.

There are plenty of Bioware-style dialogue options, which are about role-playing a personality (as of opposite to making meaningful decisions with immediate consequences). If that's your cup of tea, you'll like the game a lot. Like I said earlier: it's a Bioware game, so flavor-only dialogue options are expected and bitching about them is silly. It's whether or not the game has only flavor options that counts.

To be continued.

Edit:

Day 2 - The Joining

Day 3 - The Tower

Day 4 - The role-playing

Screenshots - isometric goodness

Screenshots

Screenshots - isometric goodness

Screenshots

Screenshots - isometric goodness

Screenshots - character system, journal, maps

Screenshots - isometric, job board, dialogue checks.

Elven ruins - enjoy the isometric interiors

Dialogue options

Special effects

Isometric porn
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 09:27:26 am by Vince » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 11:59:56 am »

Looking forward to reading more of these entries.

I agree with what you've said so far, except that I'm not a fan of the auto-regen. There are some dungeon type areas I've played later on where it's just too tempting to cheese it and let everyone heal up before heading into the next room. Still, it's a better choice than the NWN2 resting system for example in that it streamlines the gameplay sort of and makes it smoother.
I also like the armor system.

I also read the manual entry about Cunning, but to tell the truth I've only seen one dialogue option for it so far and I've played for a fair amount of hours now.
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 12:08:34 pm »

Still, it's a better choice than the NWN2 resting system for example in that it streamlines the gameplay sort of and makes it smoother.
I'd say it's a better choice than all resting systems, since all you do is look for a place to sleep and then you're as good as new. What does looking for a place to sleep or carrying 50 magic potions add? Absolutely nothing.

Quote
I also read the manual entry about Cunning, but to tell the truth I've only seen one dialogue option for it so far and I've played for a fair amount of hours now.
What character are you playing? High Cunning?
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1eyedking
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 12:22:42 pm »

I'd say it's a better choice than all resting systems, since all you do is look for a place to sleep and then you're as good as new. What does looking for a place to sleep or carrying 50 magic potions add? Absolutely nothing.
Verisimilitude, perhaps? How about a chance to make alchemy worth something?
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 12:32:12 pm »

What's the purpose of alchemy? To provide you with healing potions or to create something interesting and unique that changes/affects gameplay?

You played the combat demo. Your character is auto-healed between battles. Would forcing you to buy and drink potions or to go sleep after each battle have been a better decision? If some elements serve no purpose and give you no enjoyment but only waste your time by forcing you to do routine, boring activities, then they should be eliminated and replaced with something faster. We teleport you between locations for the same reasons.
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Hector
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 12:36:33 pm »

I'd say it's a better choice than all resting systems, since all you do is look for a place to sleep and then you're as good as new. What does looking for a place to sleep or carrying 50 magic potions add? Absolutely nothing.
Verisimilitude, perhaps?
And where do you carry these fifty potions?  In your non-existent backpack?  Hit points and health bars don't exactly add verisimilitude; D&D fans often tell me to only think of the last six or seven points of damage as physical damage, while the rest is your ability to fight slowly being ground down.  If you take that approach, a regeneration system actually adds more verisimilitude than carrying fifty potions in an invisible backpack.
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 12:37:24 pm »

Quote
What character are you playing? High Cunning?

Yep. Playing a City Elf Rogue with main focus on Cunning and Dexterity a bit behind it. The Rogue is very similar to the D&D counterpart all in all. I do like poison-making though, quite useful actually and fun to use.
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 12:40:28 pm »

Disclaimer: havent played DA and wont, reacting to information

There are many great reasons for both resting and alchemy-based healing (healing as in status reset after a fight). DA wants to be dark, mature, epic and cinematically gritty, so autoregen and done with it should be fine. In fact, it should be instant (preferably during some party banter) to avoid standing around for no reason.

A good way to skip the problems is to use fatigue and exhaustion instead of health. It comes alot close to the concept that is HP (constantly dropping and recharging via combat heal spells). All the concepts from HP based systems like spike / alpha, dps vs hps etc make at least a bit more sense. Then you can have all the dark and gritty injury stuff be special and handled by story, amongst other things.


« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:45:08 pm by Saerden » Logged
1eyedking
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 12:50:25 pm »

What's the purpose of alchemy? To provide you with healing potions or to create something interesting and unique that changes/affects gameplay?
Both. Healing potions do change and affect gameplay.

You played the combat demo. Your character is auto-healed between battles. Would forcing you to buy and drink potions or to go sleep after each battle have been a better decision? If some elements serve no purpose and give you no enjoyment but only waste your time by forcing you to do routine, boring activities, then they should be eliminated and replaced with something faster. We teleport you between locations for the same reasons.
It's a combat demo. Stuff is supposed to go fast so you can concentrate on testing the combat.

In the actual game I expect my character to require lodging and resting. It's not necessarily routinary, nor boring, as long as you attach some interesting mechanic to it. Fallout made time pass, and some quests were time dependent (both in time limit, and time of the day). The Witcher had more finesse and made it a requirement to prepare potions, make time pass quickly for desintoxication, level up, and bridge daytime and nighttime. Baldur's Gate didn't let you rest inside dungeons, and there was always the danger of oft fatal random encounters. Yes, it was sometimes save & reload procedure, but it was it's way of saying "you're actually in a dangerous world full of dangerous creatures and your characters are not regenerating gods but level 1-5 weaklings". Resting at inns was faster and safer, and thus more convenient.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:53:31 pm by 1eyedking » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 01:35:21 pm »

Quote
Baldur's Gate didn't let you rest inside dungeons, and there was always the danger of of fatal random encounters. Yes, it was sometimes save & reload procedure, but it was it's way of saying "you're actually in a dangerous world full of dangerous creatures and your characters are not regenerating gods but level 1-5 weaklings". Resting at inns was faster and safer, and thus more convenient.

Actually, I found that breaking verisimilitude quite a bit, as you could rest inside dungeons, and many times spend days resting without nothing ever changing. You could rest for days inside Irenicus dungeon, and go out and he will still be there. And the random encounters were rarely fatal, more an annoyance than anything else.

I completely agree with you that a interesting resting system would add a lot to the game, but it cannot work in a vacuum. It would work well with a game with more limited and harder encounters, not in a game that's almost Diablo-like in the number of enemies you face. The combat in DA is, in my opinion, closer to action RPGs than to turn-based tactical combat. Can you imagine Diablo with a resting system? The focus is on non-stop action, and a regenerating system sounds fine to keep the pace going, as long as encounters are tailored for full health parties.

I'm not saying that regenerating health is the ultimate system for every RPG, but for an action focused game like DA works well.
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 01:35:33 pm »

What's the purpose of alchemy? To provide you with healing potions or to create something interesting and unique that changes/affects gameplay?
Both. Healing potions do change and affect gameplay.
In what ways? You either have them or you don't. If you don't, you rest to heal; if you can't rest, you reload after taking too much damage. Hardly an interesting mechanic.

Quote
It's a combat demo. Stuff is supposed to go fast so you can concentrate on testing the combat.
Let's assume that you are not testing, but enjoying the combat. Did it suddenly become shitty?

Quote
In the actual game I expect my character to require lodging and resting. It's not necessarily routinary, nor boring, as long as you attach some interesting mechanic to it. Fallout made time pass, and some quests were time dependent (both in time limit, and time of the day). The Witcher had more finesse and made it a requirement to prepare potions, make time pass quickly for desintoxication, level up, and bridge daytime and nighttime.
I don't think that resting in Fallout was fun, well done, or added anything to the game. It was something you did to get yourself to full health. I don't think that auto regen in Fallout would have affected the quality of the game in any way.

As for the Witcher, yes, it was done better, but overall, the combat was very easy and healing wasn't an issue. I don't remember ever thinking "shit, I'm almost dead, must find a place to meditate asap". If it was harder and fights were deadlier, meditating every 10 minutes would have been very annoying.

Quote
Baldur's Gate didn't let you rest inside dungeons, and there was always the danger of oft fatal random encounters.
First, BG did let you rest inside dungeons (there was even a "resting in a dungeon" screen there), second, the encounters weren't fatal or dangerous, but sorta annoying in "

Quote
Yes, it was sometimes save & reload procedure, but it was it's way of saying "you're actually in a dangerous world full of dangerous creatures and your characters are not regenerating gods but level 1-5 weaklings". Resting at inns was faster and safer, and thus more convenient.
Level 1-5 weaklings who manage to conquer the "dangerous world full of dangerous creatures" with the magic of frequent reloads. You can either survive an encounter or not. If you can, but instead of exploring further, you have to either drink 3 potions, sleep, or - god forbid - backtrack to a nearby town and sleep there (what a horrible design that is), then having an auto regeneration system is a 100% better option.

Not all auto-regen systems are good. The key is the design: whether or not you can avoid taking damage. That's why it sucks in shooters - because you can play better and take less damage. Therefore, the auto regen system lets everyone win and encourages sloppier play style. It's not the case here.
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 01:36:55 pm »

Actually, I found that breaking verisimilitude quite a bit, as you could rest inside dungeons, and many times spend days resting without nothing ever changing. You could rest for days inside Irenicus dungeon, and go out and he will still be there. And the random encounters were rarely fatal, more an annoyance than anything else.
Very true.
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Silellak
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 01:41:45 pm »

My impressions are similar to VD's, though your Origin seems more "action-packed" than my mage origin, but there was a lot of lore contained in the Origin story which made up for that.  The combat encounters so far have been uninspired, but I don't expect that to last.  How many NPCs were you fighting a time, out of curiosity?  So far the most I've fought at once has been 3, which is disappointing, but again I don't expect that to last.

I'd like to add that the game has a ridiculous amount of polish - it feels like a AAA-console release in that regard, which I actually mean in the best possible way.  However, unlike other recent RPGs with console versions that were clearly designed with a console is the lead platform, Dragon Age is very much a PC game that they also decided to release put out on consoles - a very nice change of pace.  The interface, controls, camera, etc. all scream "keyboard and mouse, dumbfuck" - I can't even imagine trying, or wanting, to play it with a game pad.  Oddly, my biggest complaint is that the environments so far have been bland and uninspired - not bad by any means, but certainly not to the same level of polish as everything else.

The codex is a very welcome feature.  I liked it in Mass Effect, and I like it even more in Dragon Age.  Sure, the game may not have the most original setting, but at least it's not Forgotten Realms again, and it's the background information provided in the codex is great for additional atmosphere and flavor.  As VD said, dialogs are very Biowarian, which means by now you know if you can stomach that or not.  Will be interesting to see just how much C&C there is outside of the Origin story.

Either way, I'm looking forward to playing again tonight now that I'm finally out of the Origin story, and actually getting into the meat of the game (companions, bigger battles, etc.).  I hear the game doesn't even really start to impress until the World Map opens up.

Pet peeve: I can't seem to click through lines of dialog and skip the VO, which is annoying when an NPC starts to repeat themselves.

I don't think that resting in Fallout was fun, well done, or added anything to the game. It was something you did to get yourself to full health. I don't think that auto regen in Fallout would have affected the quality of the game in any way.

Though I have no issue with the regen system in DA, I disagree on this point.  Resting in Fallout was an important part of gameplay, only because resting up to full health could pass a lot of time - and time is a valuable resource when you have a timed primary quest.  Granted, once you've played through the game once and know where to go and what to do, time is far less important, but the first time through, I remember I had to seriously decide if resting up to full health was worth the lost time.  It was an interesting trade-off that's fairly unique to Fallout 1.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 01:46:36 pm by Silellak » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 01:45:57 pm »

Actually, I found that breaking verisimilitude quite a bit, as you could rest inside dungeons, and many times spend days resting without nothing ever changing. You could rest for days inside Irenicus dungeon, and go out and he will still be there. And the random encounters were rarely fatal, more an annoyance than anything else.
Very true.


When playing those games I always thought "How cool would it be that every time you spend hours or days resting the dungeon reacted to your presence?". For example, you raid the Nashkel mines, and clear the first couple of levels. Then you go and rest for 8 hours. The enemy knows of your presence, so they take measures against you: place traps, create barricades, prepare ambushes. So you are presented with an interesting choice: Do I rest to full health and lose the surprise advantage? Or press on wounded but against a surprised and disorganized enemy?

Also, I would suppress "rest spam". You can't rest for another 8 hours after you rested for the first time. You have only one chance to do it, and then move forward. Also while resting would be cool to set up guards and activities, making when to rest an important choice. In the BG games it was crap, it was an annoying random dice for full health reward, that added nothing interesting to the game.

Quote
Pet peeve: I can't seem to click through lines of dialog and skip the VO, which is annoying when an NPC starts to repeat themselves.

Press ESC. But yes, it's annoying not being able to do it with a click.
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 01:46:24 pm »

I am playing a huaman mage. Been enjoying it so far my crowed control ablitys made that fight with the oger every one has seen prety easy. some outher fight were chalanging untill I started managae all of my party memebers activly.
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