Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Monday Design Update 10/19 - Skill Perks  (Read 11979 times)
mingoran
Apprentice

Posts: 59


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2009, 06:03:41 pm »

Going with a system that chooses to have only a few meaningful and generic skills is not a problem, as long as you have enough abilities or perks to specialize each skill and obviously it's for the player to customize his character and choose the perks he wants to have. Perks can have dependencies on other perks and be upgradable in several levels (for some perks it makes sense), which makes them work like sub-skills. I think the Bloodlines model of spending xp is the best here. Upgrading any stat or buying a perk costs xp and if my character has enough he can upgrade his stats anytime.

Anyway it's great to know there will be perks and the game will have an area map we can explore. Hopefully also random and special encounters.

Logged
inhuman
Journeyman

Posts: 118


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2009, 08:47:28 pm »

Quote
So long as the guy with a good handling on a handgun don't suddenly go postal with an assault rifle simply because he leveled up, I don't see a problem there.
Its more that your guy with ranged weapon skill can use both (if you have them) from the start but will get better with each as he levels up/raises skill.

No, I specifically gave such an absurd example because Brian made two distinctive points:

Quote
more points in a skill means more viable weapon choices

Quote
and

Quote
more success in that form of combat.
Logged

UbAh
Journeyman

Posts: 162


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2009, 09:54:37 pm »

Time and resources are finite.

wait let me properly say that

Time and resources are finite!

Your calling devs lazy because they cant add everything or if they add everything they cant add meaningful game play for all of those things, has hit a pet peave of mine.  Its the stupid IT manager point of view, you know the one who has you you working on 3 projects that require full time attention and then tells marketing "Yea he can build you a custom application to do your non-urgent stuff you could be doing yourself with a spreadsheet". 
Logged
Saerden
Craftsman

Posts: 220


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2009, 10:26:40 am »

This game sounds better and better.

Usually, a tier system (few skill levels that provide clear benefit, vs classical skill that is a sliding scale with unclear payoffs) works best in a game with 1-3 PC, while in a game with dozen(s) of controllable characters, it creates other issues. How do you plan to handle multiple instances of the same skill on different levels?

The survival aspect already provides a good solution, time management: a lowly mechanic is still valuable when you have a top tier expert, because he can handle the plumbing while the expert builds some crazy device. In fact, his presence *allows* the expert to build his stuff because otherwise he would be bogged down in trivial stuff that is essential for survival.

Id like to hear more about how you plan to approach this aspect, especially if you havent given it much thought yet - it ties in perfectly with the human drama you want to focus on, and enhances a "simple" tier system really well. It probably solves the problem of in-depth builds better then adding different perks. Both at the same time would be preferable, of course, but making them balanced with themselves, and the game in general, is easier said then done even for 5-10 new perks.



Some theoretical stuff:

Few broad skills vs many one-dimension ones isnt just practical consideration, its complexity versus depth.

Take Game of Life. Its turing-complete, meaning that it can represent everything a normal computer (and probably the human brain) can. You could run Crysis on that thing. Now start adding arbitrary rules to make it "more complex", because it is "way to simple and childish". Chances are high it will simply collapse after just a couple rules.

Complexity (amount of choices) is boring without depth (meaningfull choices). Complexity is easy to create, but "balance" / "depth" gets significantly harder past a certain point.

Of course, for real, practical games, costs of creation are the dominant factor. Just keep in mind that "more" is usually worse then "less" unless you pour significant playtesting ressources into it.



inhuman:
Gameplay core being the foundation of the story-world is one is my opinion as well. However, there is no free lunch, and making the story-world you want, then engineering the gameplay core that would create it is probably alot more realistic then creating an incredible system, then trying to hammer your world into it.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 10:33:53 am by Saerden » Logged
UbAh
Journeyman

Posts: 162


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 10:42:14 pm »

The question of how the system handles time, is one I have been wanting to know the answers to since I started watching and joining these discussions.  It will be a major player in the feel of the game, establishing tension, driving story, and establishing the feel of a living world... or not.  Hehe no pressure guys  Tongue

Anyway I am waiting for them to drop that info in an update, even though to most people it may not be as sexy as skills and whatnot. 

Also I hope that if they considered doing this as a timeless open ended RPG they have reconsidered and don't bring that unfortunate thought up  Wink
Logged
inhuman
Journeyman

Posts: 118


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2009, 01:20:32 pm »

Time and resources are finite.

wait let me properly say that

Time and resources are finite!

Your calling devs lazy because they cant add everything or if they add everything they cant add meaningful game play for all of those things, has hit a pet peave of mine.  Its the stupid IT manager point of view, you know the one who has you you working on 3 projects that require full time attention and then tells marketing "Yea he can build you a custom application to do your non-urgent stuff you could be doing yourself with a spreadsheet". 

One of the timeless replies I've seen so many times. Time and resources, the ever justifying excuse all developers have by default for every bad decision in a game. Perhaps if only they knew how to use that time and resources better, and to manage their projects better.
Logged

UbAh
Journeyman

Posts: 162


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2009, 03:10:17 pm »

Focusing on important core pieces, and avoiding needless complication is good project management.

Out of curiosity, which projects have you been involved in?
Logged
inhuman
Journeyman

Posts: 118


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 05:54:12 pm »

Mind if I ask you first, followed by its relevance?

Quote
Focusing on important core pieces, and avoiding needless complication is good project management.

And just where did I disagree?
Logged

UbAh
Journeyman

Posts: 162


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2009, 06:53:02 am »

Moving 400,000 VoIP customers from vendor switches to in-house ones. 
Numerous product launches.
Removing Kerberos as an unnecessary complication in the structure of our implementation of Packet Cable and DOCSIS
DOCSIS 3.0

Right now I am in the middle of these projects
new modem product launch
IPv6
IPTV
billing system reconciliation with provisioning system

And due to the nature of the systems I manage I am constantly involved in other peoples projects.   As I don't want to vomit up a resume online we can leave that list incomplete.


Now I didn't ask the question for a game of my cock is bigger than yours, I asked it to gain an understanding of your life experiences with this sort of thing.  If I know something from your personal history it helps me to communicate to you on terms I know you can relate to.

In other words if I know where your coming from I can try to use that to more effectively gain some sort of mutual understanding.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: