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Author Topic: Game (and demo) endings  (Read 87354 times)
GhanBuriGhan
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« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2009, 04:55:35 am »

Add my vote to the ones that find it a bit overdone on the "fuck-count". Otherwise this is very nice, and a good way to end the demo (or game). I like the idea to show illustrative screens. Like Gareth I would prefer something like a sepia filter, maybe a paper or canvas effect.

Can we see a second one, to see how the choices in the game affect the ending?

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Gareth
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« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2009, 05:02:32 am »

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Otherwise this is very nice, and a good way to end the demo (or game).

It is. I've seen the branches and it's good stuff, gives you a nice taste of AoD branching.
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Gregorus Prime
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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2009, 05:04:20 am »

It's fine if you have a couple characters talking like that. Everyone knows a bloke that uses four-letter words as punctuation. If it pops up in every other sentence in all dialogues, it becomes a caricature.

Yes, well this is supposed to be a narrator of sorts. It's okay for it to convey an attitude, but it should be mostly neutral and matter-of-fact.

As for the filter: Add some light bloom, throw down a layer of light brown with maybe 20-30% opacity....



BOOM. Instant Next-Gen™ filter.  Tongue
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Gareth
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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2009, 05:13:59 am »

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Yes, well this is supposed to be a narrator of sorts.

Actually, it's from the viewpoint of the character, not a global, neutral narrator. So you're reading his thoughts and whatnot as he thinks them. The style of the writing reflects the character's personality and responses to events/dialogue. If I was a proper writer I'd give you the proper terminology, call it first person/present tense.


Quote
The Arena Master greets you with a wide smile. It better be sincere. The fucker made a fortune on you.

"I have received two job offers for you." Charging for his services, no doubt. "Lord Antidas would like to offer you Dellar's job. You'll be his right hand man, in charge of mercenaries and 'special projects', undoubtedly involving killing Gaelius' people. Teron is a shithole, of course, but the post is important. "

You consider this prospect as he continues.

"Lord Gaelius wants you to join his praetorian guards. It’s a modest position, but House Aurelian is the most powerful House. The future belongs to them, so it might be unwise to bet on the underdog. "

A praetorian guard? You, the Champion of the fucking Arena? He's gotta be fucking kidding. It's almost an insult. What did one of the dead Emperors say? "I'd rather be first in command of a village than second in the capital city." Teron it is then.



« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 05:17:17 am by Gareth » Logged

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Gregorus Prime
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2009, 05:26:35 am »

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Yes, well this is supposed to be a narrator of sorts.

Actually, it's from the viewpoint of the character, not a global, neutral narrator. So you're reading his thoughts and whatnot as he thinks them. The style of the writing reflects the character's personality and responses to events/dialogue. If I was a proper writer I'd give you the proper terminology, call it first person/present tense.


Quote
The Arena Master greets you with a wide smile. It better be sincere. The fucker made a fortune on you.

"I have received two job offers for you." Charging for his services, no doubt. "Lord Antidas would like to offer you Dellar's job. You'll be his right hand man, in charge of mercenaries and 'special projects', undoubtedly involving killing Gaelius' people. Teron is a shithole, of course, but the post is important. "

You consider this prospect as he continues.

"Lord Gaelius wants you to join his praetorian guards. It’s a modest position, but House Aurelian is the most powerful House. The future belongs to them, so it might be unwise to bet on the underdog. "

A praetorian guard? You, the Champion of the fucking Arena? He's gotta be fucking kidding. It's almost an insult. What did one of the dead Emperors say? "I'd rather be first in command of a village than second in the capital city." Teron it is then.

That's second person, actually. "The Arena Master greets you with a wide smile. You consider this prospect as he continues." It's not you that's talking, you're being talked to. I was wrong about it being neutral, I suppose, but this pushes aside the root of the matter: Gratuitous use of the word "fuck" looks stupid. That's all the reason Vince needs to change it. And once again, I think recruiting a volunteer editor should at least be considered as far as the game script is concerned.
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Gareth
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2009, 05:52:56 am »

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Yes, well this is supposed to be a narrator of sorts.

Actually, it's from the viewpoint of the character, not a global, neutral narrator. So you're reading his thoughts and whatnot as he thinks them. The style of the writing reflects the character's personality and responses to events/dialogue. If I was a proper writer I'd give you the proper terminology, call it first person/present tense.


Quote
The Arena Master greets you with a wide smile. It better be sincere. The fucker made a fortune on you.

"I have received two job offers for you." Charging for his services, no doubt. "Lord Antidas would like to offer you Dellar's job. You'll be his right hand man, in charge of mercenaries and 'special projects', undoubtedly involving killing Gaelius' people. Teron is a shithole, of course, but the post is important. "

You consider this prospect as he continues.

"Lord Gaelius wants you to join his praetorian guards. It’s a modest position, but House Aurelian is the most powerful House. The future belongs to them, so it might be unwise to bet on the underdog. "

A praetorian guard? You, the Champion of the fucking Arena? He's gotta be fucking kidding. It's almost an insult. What did one of the dead Emperors say? "I'd rather be first in command of a village than second in the capital city." Teron it is then.

That's second person, actually. "The Arena Master greets you with a wide smile. You consider this prospect as he continues." It's not you that's talking, you're being talked to. I was wrong about it being neutral, I suppose, but this pushes aside the root of the matter: Gratuitous use of the word "fuck" looks stupid. That's all the reason Vince needs to change it. And once again, I think recruiting a volunteer editor should at least be considered as far as the game script is concerned.

Right, right, second person, or it would be "The arena master greets me with a smile". Thanks.

"Gratuitous use of the word "fuck" looks stupid."

I also find it jarring, but Vince likes it and it's his game, so... That writer guy from "The Steel Remains" seems to think it's a neat trick, so maybe it's just a matter of perspective. Even if you want a lot of swearing, I'd use either descriptive terms like "swine / whoreson" or make up swear words/slang, ala "taffer" from Thief and "Frak" from BSG.
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Zaij
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2009, 06:00:56 am »

Yeah, usage of 'fuck' should be rare unless the character is a prolific swearer, otherwise it just cheapens the effect.
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Tuomas
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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2009, 06:24:00 am »

Joe Abercrombie's thoughts on swearing in fantasy reflect my own:

http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2007/09/zounds-swearing-in-fantasy.html

"To make up a word simply to act as a substitute for a perfectly good English word seems to me almost cowardly, and as a reader I would find it extremely irritating. After all, if frel or whatever is supposed to mean F**K, why not just call a spade a spade? And if it doesn't mean F**K, then what the f**k is it supposed to mean? I can see the point if it means a TV show can air before the watershed, but I can't for the life of me see the point in an adult work of fiction."

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Gareth
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2009, 07:05:13 am »

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To make up a word simply to act as a substitute for a perfectly good English word seems to me almost cowardly

It's not that it's cowardly, that the writer is afraid of swearing. It's that swear words seem, due to common perception, to be out of place, jarring. I find it anachronistic. It may simply be one of those mindsets created by popular media, but I'd find the words "fuck" and "shit" out of place in any setting meant to be >100 years or so in the past. I don't expect them in Victorian works, I don't expect them in the renaissance, and I certainly don't expect them in medieval or antiquity settings, or any fantasy world analogous to those time periods. Saying "it's a fantasy world, whatever" doesn't work for me, it's Roman inspired, I expect language that reflects that just as the buildings and equipment does.

Language mutates rapidly. I do not expect speech patterns from 2000+ years ago to sound similar to what I'd hear in a modern bar, or when talking with friends. It doesn't have to be "ye olde english", but too many modern terms and expressions strains my suspension of disbelief. A made-up term sounds less jarring because there isn't an existing framework around it built up in the reader's mind.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 07:20:52 am by Gareth » Logged

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Anonxeuix
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2009, 07:55:36 am »

It may simply be one of those mindsets created by popular media, but I'd find the words "fuck" and "shit" out of place in any setting meant to be >100 years or so in the past.

For some reason I'm in the same boat as you, but I'm not sure whether or not these words were actually used in those times. If so, there's nothing wrong with them in this setting. Though then again it's Vince's call whether or not to use them it he feels they actually do fit his setting.
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Gareth
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2009, 08:03:33 am »

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For some reason I'm in the same boat as you, but I'm not sure whether or not these words were actually used in those times. If so, there's nothing wrong with them in this setting.

Actually, it'd still be a problem regardless. The reason is that, for writing, the perception is the thing. You have to work with the mindset of your reader to create your "illusion". What the reality was is actually not particularly relevant, it's what people expect to see/hear/read when they deal with a particular time period. You can occasionally play with such expectations for effect, if you're a skilled writer who knows exactly how far they can take it without breaking credulity, but few have that skill, and it would only work in moderation anyway.

A skilled writer understands that how his audience is going to interpret his words is highly important, and that that interpretation is based on the mental constructs of the audience themselves, the times they live in, the situation in the world around them. You've got to know how people's minds work.

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Vince
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 08:32:16 am »

About swearing in dialogues...

Complaint #1 - "fuck" and "fucker" are too modern and probably wasn't used in an ancient Rome-like setting.

No shit. For the record, they didn't speak modern English either, but nobody seems to complain about it. Do you really think that the original Vulgar Latin swearing would fit the modern English better?

Besides, "fuck" was used quite often in Rome (the HBO show) and it's not like it ruined the immersion.


Complaint #2: "Yeah the profanity feels a little out of place for that type of era."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catullus_16

The following adaptation attempts to convey the attitude of this poem:

        I'm gonna fuck you guys up the ass and shove my cock down your throats,
        yes, you, Aurelius--you fucking cocksucker--and you too, Furius, you faggot!
        Just because my verses are tender doesn't mean
        that I've gone all soft. Sure, a poet should focus
        on writing poetry and not on sex; but does that
        mean they can't write about sex? If a poem is
        in good taste, well-written and erotic,
        it can give massive boners to hairy old men,
        not just to horny teenagers. You think I'm a sissy
        just because I write about thousands of kisses?
        I'm gonna fuck you guys up the ass and shove my cock down your throats!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity

Complaint #3: the lady doth swear too much - excessive profanity alert!

The word "fuck" is used 3 times. Hardly excessive. I did much better in some reviews:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=159

Concern: Do all characters swear?
No.
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willcodejavaforfood
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2009, 08:40:36 am »

I love it when people quickly take critisism onboard Smile
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Vince
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 08:42:57 am »

Can we see a second one, to see how the choices in the game affect the ending?
Second one what? Ending? Sure. Anything for you, Ghan.

The window thing has a Dex check, btw:

"You have two options: fight six veteran soldiers or escape through the window. Neither option fits into your definition of a "good idea", but the window offers better odds. Unfortunately, it seems like you spent all your luck in the arena. You lose your footing and fall, shattering your knee; the pain forcing the breath from your lungs. Your fighting days are certainly over, but you don't have to live with your disability for long, the guards soon find you and put an end to both the pain and your life."

Here is something different:

* * *

The arena champion stumbles backwards, sword falling from his hands as he tries to stop the blood gushing from his wound. His eyes lose focus and he falls slowly to the sand. You are the champion now. Twenty people who fought against you paid for your new title with their lives. Not bad, all things considered. Some people kill a lot more and end up with a lot less.

The Arena Master greets you with a wide smile. It better be sincere. The fucker made a fortune on you.

"I have received two job offers for you." Charging for his services, no doubt. "Lord Antidas would like to offer you Dellar's job. You'll be his right hand man, in charge of mercenaries and 'special projects', undoubtedly involving killing Gaelius' people. Teron is a shithole, of course, but the post is important. "

You consider this prospect as he continues.

"Lord Gaelius wants you to join his praetorian guards. It’s a modest position, but House Aurelian is the most powerful House. The future belongs to them, so it might be unwise to bet on the underdog, but the decision is yours, of course. "

You always bet on the winner, so it’s an easy choice. Sure, Gaelius could have shown more respect to the new Champion of the Arena, but you don't mind waiting for an opportunity to prove yourself. Aint nowhere to go but up now.

You return to the inn, order a round of drinks just to get people off your back, and go upstairs. Before you have a chance to take off your armor, the Imperial Guards open the door with a kick. Right, you killed Carbo, their captain. You almost forgot, but they sure didn't.

Someone else would have seen a threat here, but you see an opportunity. You thank the fate for sending you six well trained fighters and start talking. Poor bastards don't have a chance. You play them like a musical instrument, creating different emotions and leading them toward the conclusion you present as obvious. When you leave the inn, you have a gang of eager killers at your disposal. You think you'll like it here in Maadoran.

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Vince
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 08:43:14 am »

Sooo... you actually get to choose which offer to accept, right? There are breaks in the storytelling mode where you can make choices?
Yes. In normal dialogues, not storytelling mode. The storytelling mode simply sums up what you did.

Forget anachronisms. I'm talking about poor writing.
Roll Eyes

Joe Abercrombie's thoughts on swearing in fantasy reflect my own:

http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2007/09/zounds-swearing-in-fantasy.html

"To make up a word simply to act as a substitute for a perfectly good English word seems to me almost cowardly, and as a reader I would find it extremely irritating. After all, if frel or whatever is supposed to mean F**K, why not just call a spade a spade? And if it doesn't mean F**K, then what the f**k is it supposed to mean? I can see the point if it means a TV show can air before the watershed, but I can't for the life of me see the point in an adult work of fiction."
My sentiments exactly.

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