Iron Tower Studio Forums

RPG => The Shelter - Official Dead State Forum => Topic started by: Brian on May 13, 2015, 03:32:10 pm



Title: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 13, 2015, 03:32:10 pm

I have tailored this update specifically to your relationship with Dead State for the release of our Dead State: Reanimated update.

SECTION A - Fans of Dead State

SECTION B – Customers Who Did Not Like the Core Game

SECTION C – Press

SECTION D – Those Who Have Not Bought the Game Yet

SECTION E – Those Who Have Pirated the Game

SECTION A
You guys are fantastic! Your support, positive reviews, interactions, and continued enthusiasm for Dead State have kept us going. Thank you! We created this free update to address many of your requests and to enhance your experience with the core game. Unlike some companies, we don’t want to charge you $20 for the pleasure of playing a definitive version of the game. Please update your game files and have fun with the best version of Dead State to come out yet! Keep in touch and hopefully we can count on your interest in our future titles.

SECTION B
First – thanks for purchasing Dead State! We understand you may have had some frustrating issues or problems with the initial design of the game. We heard your complaints and we’ve done our best to address them. We hope this rebalanced and polished version of the core game will make fans of you yet! Please download the update and give Dead State another try. If Dead State still isn’t your thing, we’ll do our best to make our next game more to your liking. If you DO like the update, go back and read Part A.

SECTION C
Going by your response to our release, you have probably not heard of Dead State. Here’s your chance to finally cover the game! We know how much you like throwing around “indie” as it relates to 2D platformers and retro games, but Dead State is one of the rare indie RPGs to be released in 2014. It’s the first game for DoubleBear Productions; we Kickstarted it, we made it for $300,000, and we worked out of our own homes to get it done. Some of you that did cover it found it lacking when compared to games with 15-20 times our budget. A few reviewers pointed out legitimate issues that we prioritized for our very frequent patches and updates, and I’m happy to say that many of these items have been fixed or added for our Dead State: Reanimated update. You should definitely give it a second look or a review update, if that’s your thing. We’ll even abide those terrible zombie puns you guys love if it gets you to cover Dead State. And as always, we’re available for interviews, Twitch shows, yell streams (is that a thing?) or whatever it is you all think will get views for you and coverage for us.

SECTION D
Hey, we’re DoubleBear Productions - thanks for reading this far! Maybe you’ve heard about Dead State, maybe you’ve been holding off until a major update, or maybe you’ve held off because you think indie games should only cost $5 and no more. Well, here’s what you need to know about us and Dead State. DoubleBear was founded by two veteran game designers (I wrote/designed on a game called Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Annie has worked on Neverwinter Nights 2, Guild Wars 2, and Destiny), but for many of the die-hard RPG fans on the team, this is their first major release. Dead State is inspired by equal parts Dawn of the Dead, my own experiences with Hurricane Andrew, and classic RPG and Strategy games such as Fallout, X-Com, Jagged Alliance, and Suikoden – it’s the zombie game about humans. It’s our first game, it was Kickstarted back in summer 2012, and it took a heckuva lot of late nights to make, but in the end we produced a hardcore RPG with tons of branching dialogue, a hybrid real-time and turn-based strategy system, and at least sixty to eighty hours of content for many players.

We realize $30 may sound like a lot to part with, but I assure you, RPGs like Dead State take far more developers and time for all the systems, assets, writing, and testing required to put one together. We’d love to make another RPG the future, but unless sales say otherwise, we may have to stick to non-RPGs - which is okay, we like those too, but for RPG fans, more options is always a good thing. So consider your $30 a vote for a better future for indie RPGs and for developers like DoubleBear that continued to release free updates to the game after release.

And if that’s not enough to put things in perspective, here’s just how little $30 for a 60-80 hour game is in comparison to some other forms of entertainment/distraction:

-2 tickets to a movie, even if it has Mark Wahlberg in it
-6 comic books that will probably not even properly resolve that story arc you were following
-18 pieces of greasy fast food non-apocalypse chicken
-1 woman’s haircut (maybe)
-1 day of parking in downtown Seattle for an event
-1 concert ticket for a mildly famous band (not counting the bullshit convenience fees)
-5 large lattes with whip cream
-30 games of skeeball, which won’t even get you that fake vomit
-2 hospital aspirin
-A pair of drinks at an upscale bar where you went with some work acquaintances and ordered one drink because you were excited and the second to be polite but when you saw the check you were like A MELONTINI COSTS WHAT NOW?!
-1 hardcover book that ends up being an almost exact rehash of the author’s last book
-20 visits to a pay toilet in the UK, especially after those lattes and chicken

And if $30 doesn’t work for you, we’ll let you know the next time we’re on sale if you subscribe to our Facebook or Twitter page. Thanks for your interest in Dead State!

SECTION E
Oh boy, this one is going to be both long and frustrating to write, but since we’ve cost you nothing this far, please read on. I realize that there are many reasons that people pirate the game – we wrote an incredibly long section on our site about it already, so I won’t rehash that. I’m going to specifically address the people who like RPGs, like indie games, and sometimes pay for games. The truth of the matter is that DoubleBear did not make enough money from sales of Dead State to fund another RPG. Sure, we made some money, and we’ll make another game, but we did not make huge stacks of cash – in fact, we still work out of our homes and have a pretty limited budget that we need to adhere to.
 
The biggest cost to us is salaries for our team. For a company our size, even the difference of a thousand more copies sold is a huge deal as it relates to funding our team for another month.  We have to pay for things like hardware replacements, business costs and taxes, software licenses, and all the other odds and ends that come up when running a business. We also operate out of Seattle, which is a game development hub and coincidentally one of the most expensive cities in the US, and that means paying competitive rates to current employees and potential future hires. Sure, we don’t manufacture any physical goods, but there is definitely a cost associated with game development and I personally have to make that money work to keep my really talented team employed. If you haven’t ever done long-term project budgeting before, then take my word for it – it’s stressful as hell.

Piracy happens on all media. However, there are some differences between the game industry and other forms of entertainment. Movies make money at the box office, disc and digital copies, cable, international, and television rights, merchandising – movies have been around so long, they have a formula to milk every dollar out of a movie that they can. Musicians have never made much on hard copies – they make most of their money from shows and merch, with a small portion making money from endorsements. With modern forms of entertainment, some people make more money from playing games than the people making the games. Games make ALL their money from sales – without that money we cannot make games, especially costly games like RPGs which require more developers and longer development cycles.

I wouldn’t normally address pirates (again), but we’ve seen some torrent numbers and Dead State has experienced higher than average piracy numbers. For example, one GOG torrent we tracked leeched 10X the number of copies sold on GOG in a three month period. Torrents for our updates go up almost as quickly as we get them out, and the seeders alone number in the thousands on some torrents. We know you’re playing, and we’re glad we’ve remained popular with every update, but that popularity hasn’t translated to more sales. If even a fraction of those torrents were converted to sales, we’d be doing pretty great as a business. Think about the shittiest meal you’ve ever eaten or the worst carnival ride you ever went on – you paid more for that, then you did for Dead State. We don’t have a tip jar or a subscription model or even DLC – we depend on sales of Dead State to keep the company going. If you’re starting to weigh the pros of supporting us, please go up and read Part D to put your gaming money in perspective. If you’re still not convinced, read on.

So, here’s the part that’s less about DoubleBear and Dead State and more about how piracy will shape the future of game development. As I said, games make all their money on sales. So, in order to make a profit, more games are going to have to go to a model that supports server authentication/always on gameplay. It will also mean that there will be more piecemeal DLC/extras for the true fans and whales to pay the ongoing costs of the game.  Games with lengthy development cycles will be off the table unless every step can be monetized by early access - which by the way, due to their linear curve design and single-player focus, story-based RPGs are terrible for early access. Engines already make it much easier to make FPS/third-person shooters and 2D platformers, so those will continue to be the predominate types of games made. The phone market has popularized the free-to-play, nickel-and-dime design and that model is now being applied to other platforms because players are more likely to play a “free” game and continually spend money on it than pay for a complete game. Single-player RPGS have had a good year after a long drought – this renaissance can easily turn into another dark age if RPG developers can’t make the math work for similar future projects. We need indie developers making the kinds of games that may not have the biggest audience or the highest profit margins, and to do that, we need to know that fans of the games we make are willing to pay for them.

We’ve just released a massive update for Dead State that’s free for customers. If you like the idea of developers supporting their game for months after release without asking for another dime from players, think about buying the game. If you liked Dead State and want to see more old-school RPGs, think about buying the game. If you want to see more diverse types of indie games or to grow an indie developer into a studio capable of making more ambitious titles, think about buying the game. I have no doubt that the Dead State: Reanimated update will be on torrents as soon as it’s released, but if you’ve already read this far, please consider buying the game either now or when it’s at a price you can afford. Thanks for reading and we hope to make you a customer in the future.   



Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: BadVoodoo on May 13, 2015, 03:49:47 pm
HOLY SHIT ITS OUT!?!?! ITS REALLY OUT!?!!! OH MY GOD ITS SO JUICY


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: dwayneotron on May 13, 2015, 04:06:03 pm
This just started downloading in my Steam, and now I'm excited. Good work, you guys! Thanks for the update!


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Caidoz on May 13, 2015, 04:10:18 pm
Thanks for all your hard work, DoubleBear Team!  :salute:


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: DrunkZombie on May 13, 2015, 04:19:49 pm
Note, it is not in the patch notes, but Gillian's fuel scavanging should now be working correctly.  If you already have her doing it, tell her to do it again after installing the patch.


Also to everyone, I strongly suggest starting a new game.  The game plays much differently now and is like a whole new experience.

I also thank the Double Bear team for all their hard work and for the wonderful birthday present.  As a hard core rpg and zombie genre fan, having Dead State Reanimated release on my birthday is very cool.   :salute: :panic: :approve:


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 14, 2015, 06:17:48 pm
Going from the response since release, going to bump this thread for sections C & E.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: veryinky on May 15, 2015, 09:36:53 am
The truth of the matter is that DoubleBear did not make enough money from sales of Dead State to fund another RPG. Sure, we made some money, and we’ll make another game, but we did not make huge stacks of cash – in fact, we still work out of our homes and have a pretty limited budget that we need to adhere to.
That's unfortunate. I would have bought a Dead State 2 or similar game. Turn based RPGs, or RPGs that aren't fantasy are so incredibly rare. I have bought every single one that's been sold, even the ones that are untranslated russian or german.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: BadVoodoo on May 15, 2015, 03:05:05 pm
The truth of the matter is that DoubleBear did not make enough money from sales of Dead State to fund another RPG. Sure, we made some money, and we’ll make another game, but we did not make huge stacks of cash – in fact, we still work out of our homes and have a pretty limited budget that we need to adhere to.
That's unfortunate. I would have bought a Dead State 2 or similar game. Turn based RPGs, or RPGs that aren't fantasy are so incredibly rare. I have bought every single one that's been sold, even the ones that are untranslated russian or german.
Yea this. Especially with zombie games. Literally been waiting for a good zombie RPG my entire life and this is the only one that's hit the spot. I wish Double Bear got into the kickstarter fad earlier when they were handing out cash by the millions. Breaks my heart Dead State will be one of those hidden gems. And the front page negative reviews dont help on steam. I think me and Caz did what we can to help out during the early access demo but fuck man, if you had the money to hired people a lot of those bugs could have been squashed .

For whatever its worth double bear you hit the spot. As im playing the new Dead State i have to say this is the best RPGgasm i had in a long time so thank you. I'd help any of you hide a body and day of the week.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: DrunkZombie on May 15, 2015, 05:41:12 pm
I believe the hot fix will be up on steam soon, gog to follow.  Fixes ranged melee, zombies going through doors, car trunk auto stock, glide walking, and I think they even added non-qwerty
keyboard support.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 15, 2015, 06:24:45 pm
The truth of the matter is that DoubleBear did not make enough money from sales of Dead State to fund another RPG. Sure, we made some money, and we’ll make another game, but we did not make huge stacks of cash – in fact, we still work out of our homes and have a pretty limited budget that we need to adhere to.
That's unfortunate. I would have bought a Dead State 2 or similar game. Turn based RPGs, or RPGs that aren't fantasy are so incredibly rare. I have bought every single one that's been sold, even the ones that are untranslated russian or german.

I can say with about 99% certainty that there will not be a Dead State 2. I'd even strongly reconsider using a real world setting again, since press and even players strongly equate RPGS with fantasy/sci-fi settings. Trying to get exposure for this game from the majority of the gaming press has been one of the most frustrating experiences of my career. I don't think Dead State is perfect by any means (I think most RPGs have flaws and frustrations as a result of trying to do everything), and I realize it's not the prettiest game out there, but I suspect it would have been a lot easier to market our first game had it been a fantasy-based RPG that took fewer risks. I know "zombies" are a tired concept for many, but it's not like press have stopped covering the latest zombies shooters and zombie movies, it's just that our setting as an RPG never clicked with them - that or they see "RPG" tacked onto every game with stats and figured we were more about "level 12 shotguns" than character conflict.

I'm really glad that some of the players who played Dead State loved it and that it reminded them of games they remember fondly. We love making RPGs, and chances are we will get the urge to do another one, one of these days - there's no shortage of ideas there. When we set out the plan for the company, however, we definitely did not want to be just "an RPG company". When games of your banner genre take years to make, that strategy only works when you're making mega-hits and sequels to those hits. We started an indie company specifically to work on whatever games we felt like making - RPGS, action games, adventure hybrids, short-term lab experiments that may go nowhere. As a matter of course, I'd say it's a pretty common feeling amongst RPG developers to want to try something different in tone or gameplay after years on a single RPG. And, as I mentioned above, sometimes the marketplace has a hand in the structure of our game, because it really comes down to making enough money to continue on as a company. After so many years on Dead State, I am so looking forward to working on something new - hopefully it resonates with a larger population of gamers, but regardless, it will be a game we want to make. As a game developer, pretty much all you can do at the end of a project, success or not, is press on with the next project and try to do a better job than the last.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Jonathan on May 15, 2015, 06:48:30 pm
I believe the hot fix will be up on steam soon, gog to follow.  Fixes ranged melee, zombies going through doors, car trunk auto stock, glide walking, and I think they even added non-qwerty
keyboard support.
Non-qwerty keyboard support is for the Data System specifically.

Other things not listed by DZ:
  • Sir Charleston should now be attackable by the PC
  • Davis should no longer be a floating head if armor is equipped on him
  • Nick was able to fix a startup crash occurring for some people thanks to your feedback


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: BadVoodoo on May 15, 2015, 07:28:44 pm
@Brian
As an outside observer, if i may voice my opinion about Dead State and the press, i'll spoiler because i think thats only polite.

(click to show/hide)
Seriously though, look foward to whatever the hell you do. You got a fan for life.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Greyman on May 16, 2015, 01:19:11 pm
I was pretty sorry to hear about the low sales and the press response too, but the above poster has at least some of the right of it; there was some real negative reaction to the early bugginess in some circles, even some that otherwise liked the game.  I watched SplatterCat's playthrough, for example, and he got progressively pissed off about it over the course of his LP.

I don't think some of the response is entirely fair--you guys are a tiny company, and expecting things to come out, even on release, cleaner than it was, given how much complexity-to-staff there is there doesn't seem reasonable to me--but it clearly was the cause of at least a significant piece of it.  I suspect some of the more intractable issues with Torque probably didn't help.

What I don't understand is why you seemed to get cut less slack than, say, Undead Labs or inXile.  Don't get me wrong, I think Wasteland 2 and State of Decay both did what they were trying for pretty well, but they were also fairly buggy in spots and had a bigger (in the case of Undead Labs) and much bigger (in the case of inXile) budget and staff to work with than you guys did, and yet they got less flack (though not, to be clear, none).  Maybe it was because the particular bugs you guys had just happened to be particularly annoying.

(But then, maybe I'm just more tolerant of bugs in general than most people; I've played and enjoyed Fort Zombie after all.)


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 16, 2015, 03:21:50 pm
I was pretty sorry to hear about the low sales and the press response too, but the above poster has at least some of the right of it; there was some real negative reaction to the early bugginess in some circles, even some that otherwise liked the game.  I watched SplatterCat's playthrough, for example, and he got progressively pissed off about it over the course of his LP.

When I'm talking about press, I'm mostly referring to during the Kickstarter, PAX, the Beta, pre-release, and now for the Reanimated update. While we had a few sites report on us fairly regularly, we had an incredibly difficult time attracting new sites to cover us. We had no problem with reviews that pointed out issues with the release - that's to be expected.

Mostly what I'm referring to is that historically, it's been our experience that press gets more excited about covering fantasy/sci-fi/post-apoc/steampunk/supernatural RPG settings than real world settings. One of our gambles with DS was to focus on normal people rather than fallen paladins, crazy villains, and steam elves, but since so many RPGs stick to fantasy conventions, that has become the expectation of what an RPG involves. We've definitely seen feedback where the "zombie" tag comes with the expectation of action-based gameplay, so when we've tried to promote our RPG, press focused mainly on the zombie portion, even though the shelter gameplay and human groups were the main part of the game. To sum up, it's ->my opinion <- that we would have had an easier time selling a turn-based RPG to press and players if we had stuck to a conventional "Dragons are Back!" storyline - not that I would have wanted to make that game, but that it certainly attracts a larger crowd when it comes to RPGs.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: BadVoodoo on May 16, 2015, 04:34:06 pm
-snip-
You would know more then us users, really is a dam shame because i like your work when it comes to realist personalities and settings, they seem more believable then other fictions like mentioned before.... but umm, since you'll probably abandoned the dead state forums eventually, i'd like to ask while i still got the chance.

Can you please satisfy my autistic immensity and tell me how is voice of Lane Vibesit / "The Radio Guy" suppose to sound like? Pre-release id imagine he sounded Opie and Anthony but seeing him in person ruined it for me and i cant help but imagine him sounding like The Chocolate Rain guy which is really bugging me. Maybe you can verity what voice was in mind?


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 16, 2015, 05:35:00 pm
-snip-
Can you please satisfy my autistic immensity and tell me how is voice of Lane Vibesit / "The Radio Guy" suppose to sound like? Pre-release id imagine he sounded Opie and Anthony but seeing him in person ruined it for me and i cant help but imagine him sounding like The Chocolate Rain guy which is really bugging me. Maybe you can verity what voice was in mind?

He was inspired by a couple of people, but the genesis of his character came from the song "The End of Radio" by Shellac, so Steve Albini would be part of the inspiration for his voice. "Lane Vibesit" is in fact an anagram of Steve Albini.

The other contributing voice for Lane would come from a designer friend of mine who also takes an odd comfort in misery.

So, to answer your question, not at all like the Chocolate Rain guy, more like the DJ on your local college radio station.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Greyman on May 16, 2015, 11:37:24 pm
Ah, I didn't understand you were only talking about the more specific press coverage, Brian.  I wouldn't want to say you're wrong, but I at least think there might have been some elements of the extra hurdle turn based games deal with at the best of times; and it may be that the combination of a modern period, relatively non-fantasy game, turn based play, and the focus on the shelter and such may have, in combination, just been a bridge too far for many people--some of whom were gaming press.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Romanul on May 17, 2015, 08:06:16 am
Long time lurker, I've decided to make an account to thank you for the wonderful game. I'm really sorry that there won't be a sequel/expansion (on the  lines of what Dragonfall is to Shadowrun returns) and believe me I would have backed the Kickstarter for it.

I wish you well in you future endeavors and I'll definitely check out any other RPG you might make (not really interested in other genres expect TBS).


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: monstermanual on May 20, 2015, 01:13:28 pm
I love DS and I absolutely buy that it struggled to get coverage because of the genre and release. I do think that many reviewers, in the press or on Steam/elsewhere, have been unfairly focused on bugs: CRPGs are an inherently buggy game at release, and even a game like Dragon Age with a budget many, many times higher than DS's had a ton of bugs at release that weren't fixed for a long time.

However, knowing the higher bar DS had to clear, Double Bear really should have taken more care to release it in a better state. I don't know if there were financial reasons it had to be released when it was, but it clearly wasn't ready at release day, and the scant attention from the press it did get was soured. If DS had waited to release like it is now, maybe some better buzz could have been built.

Still, I love the game and it's an absolute shame it hasn't panned out to support more and similar RPGs from DB. DS is a game I've wanted to play for a long time and will keep playing into the future. I hope someday DB might want to try a sequel with all the hindsight gained from DS and I'd be the first in line for it.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 20, 2015, 01:19:14 pm
I love DS and I absolutely buy that it struggled to get coverage because of the genre and release. I do think that many reviewers, in the press or on Steam/elsewhere, have been unfairly focused on bugs: CRPGs are an inherently buggy game at release, and even a game like Dragon Age with a budget many, many times higher than DS's had a ton of bugs at release that weren't fixed for a long time.

However, knowing the higher bar DS had to clear, Double Bear really should have taken more care to release it in a better state. I don't know if there were financial reasons it had to be released when it was, but it clearly wasn't ready at release day, and the scant attention from the press it did get was soured. If DS had waited to release like it is now, maybe some better buzz could have been built.

I answered this above - the press I'm referring to is for all stages of the project, not just release.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: monstermanual on May 20, 2015, 01:29:58 pm
I answered this above - the press I'm referring to is for all stages of the project, not just release.
Sure-- I think that's absolutely true too. I've followed the game since it was first talked about and when the KS started I was very frustrated that I couldn't get more people I know interested, although I tried and have tried since. I really appreciate your perspective on releasing and marketing a real-people RPG because I love the setting but, for some reason, it doesn't translate into RPG interest (there aren't even any tabletop RPGs exploring similar territory). You guys really broke a lot of ground with DS and I hope you can build on it in future projects, whether or not they're in the DS franchise.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Brian on May 20, 2015, 01:43:06 pm
I answered this above - the press I'm referring to is for all stages of the project, not just release.
Sure-- I think that's absolutely true too. I've followed the game since it was first talked about and when the KS started I was very frustrated that I couldn't get more people I know interested, although I tried and have tried since. I really appreciate your perspective on releasing and marketing a real-people RPG because I love the setting but, for some reason, it doesn't translate into RPG interest (there aren't even any tabletop RPGs exploring similar territory). You guys really broke a lot of ground with DS and I hope you can build on it in future projects, whether or not they're in the DS franchise.

We appreciate the word-of-mouth help - thank you!

I'm not an expert, but I believe there actually are several very popular tabletop games that deal with survivors. A board game fan could probably jump in and name a few.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: DrunkZombie on May 20, 2015, 05:24:45 pm
I answered this above - the press I'm referring to is for all stages of the project, not just release.
Sure-- I think that's absolutely true too. I've followed the game since it was first talked about and when the KS started I was very frustrated that I couldn't get more people I know interested, although I tried and have tried since. I really appreciate your perspective on releasing and marketing a real-people RPG because I love the setting but, for some reason, it doesn't translate into RPG interest (there aren't even any tabletop RPGs exploring similar territory). You guys really broke a lot of ground with DS and I hope you can build on it in future projects, whether or not they're in the DS franchise.

In fact there is a kickstarter for a new edition of one right now.  Outbreak: Undead

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/186293494/outbreak-undead-2nd-edition-starter-kit (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/186293494/outbreak-undead-2nd-edition-starter-kit)

I know there are of several other apocalyptic and zombie table top rpgs, but can't recall them off the top of my head.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Caidoz on May 20, 2015, 07:29:52 pm
There's "All Flesh Must Be Eaten" which is like a zombie-themed D&D campaign setting kind of thing.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: SagaDC on May 20, 2015, 11:37:03 pm
There's "All Flesh Must Be Eaten" which is like a zombie-themed D&D campaign setting kind of thing.

That's probably the most popular one, or at least the most prolific one. They've released about a dozen assorted supplements over the years, some of them generic and others exploring specific sub-genres. It's not a bad system, but a bit too clunky for my tastes.

A relatively recent alternative is Dead Reign, which comes from Palladium Games. It's actually pretty interesting, too, with a few solid ideas - but it suffers from the usual problems you see in pretty much all Palladium Games. Namely, there are far too many charts. Roughly sixty percent of each book is just made up of charts. Experience progression charts, skill charts, random encounter charts, loot charts, and so on. Things like encounter charts and loot charts are pretty neat, but they have some fairly arbitrary percentages attached to them.

Personally, I usually use the Call of Cthulhu system as my go-to whenever I want to run a horror-themed game, including zombie-survival. It's simple enough to keep things moving, rather lethal, and already has an "insanity" system built right in. The "learn by doing" skill system is a plus.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Greyman on May 21, 2015, 04:43:51 pm
There's a number of zombie themed RPGs or RPG supplements.  However, and this may bear more on both what Brian and monstermanual said, most of them run toward the more fantastic end of the genre; they're more like playing Left4Dead in an RPG than Dead State or even State of Decay.  Mind you, that's true of RPGs in general.


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: CounselorPally on June 05, 2015, 03:38:44 pm
I supported the game as much as I possibly could through word of mouth and my main youtube channel. I've pumped uncountable hours into the game but what I think killed it for me is that the first two hours are way too repetitive. I like to do things in whatever order I want and it wasn't possible. I've already beat that topic into the ground though and don't think it does any good to bring it up anymore.

I still believe though that Dead State is the definitive survival game from a behavioral standpoint. It's like the "Conflicted" card game but with consequences. For what you set out to do Brian, you absolutely nailed it. The rest couldn't have been avoided without ditching the first two hours of scripted events entirely, even if it was for a second playthrough or something. :-(

Also for the record, I never found the defects to be an issue. Defects give a game character as long as they don't blow up your system. Dead Island would have been an absolute trash game if it was any good. Since it was so glitchingly awful it makes for one of my favorite games of all time. Same with Aidyn Chronicles. Some games need glitches to make them memorable. :)

I think the most important thing was that Dead State was honest. It never claimed to be something it wasn't.

I can't help thinking though, with the whole torrent situation that maybe a few ingame purchases could have been able to regain some lost revenue...


Title: Re: Dead State: Reanimated Project Lead Update
Post by: Greyman on June 06, 2015, 08:03:59 pm
All that would have done would have meant someone would have hacked it with the ingame purchases rolled in.

Keep in mind that the Denuvo anti-tamper in DA:I only took the hackers a little longer to get through, and its apparently a big ole pain in the behind.  The best you can do is make a game people want to buy--past that its a fool's game.