Iron Tower Studio Forums

RPG => The Age of Decadence => Topic started by: Oscar on August 15, 2008, 06:07:32 pm



Title: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 15, 2008, 06:07:32 pm
Here is something for you guys to discuss while we are preparing that Merchants Guild article that Vince promised you.

Some new armor and clothes.

(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4535/newarmorsclothesit9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

A female-male armor comparisons.

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4030/femalemalearmorskl7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Edit: That's the isometric (i.e. in-game) look:

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9977/charactersiso2zt1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Mephisto on August 15, 2008, 06:17:11 pm
That's very nice, I like the mongol moustache!


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Fosse on August 15, 2008, 07:30:45 pm
I'm really impressed with the characters.  The only shots this close up I've really seen are in the videos, and of course the resolution here shows off the detail much better.

These are the first female's we've seen?  If I may, they are a touch mannish.  What really stands out is overly large hands and feet, I think.  After looking for a bit I think the shoulders may be a bit wide, as well.  But I don't think I would have noticed that (if it's true) without the careful once over.  The hands and feet though jumped out.

If it's only one of several models, and this is the only one that just happens to be that way, then I withhold judgement until I see the rest of them.  The men here look great.  Good work.



Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Gareth on August 16, 2008, 03:07:33 am
Very nice :)

Although, agree on the arms for females, decrease their size and shoulder width a bit.

Can I suggest something though? Add chafing cream as a purchasable item. That barbarian woman must get incredible nipple chafing, seeing as the leather straps holding her shoulder-pads in place cross directly over them.  lol

Seriously though, a fur bikini top for her would be good, seems fairly unrealistic. She swings a weapon hard and those babies are going to come loose and then her shoulder pads will fall off and all the other barbarians will make fun of her. ;)

Love the Mongol looking chaps.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Jedi_Learner on August 16, 2008, 04:05:37 am
Serious question: Is there anything you can customise physically during the character creation screen? The face? Eye colour? Hairstyle? Size of breasts? Anything?


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Julius on August 16, 2008, 08:29:52 am
Hm, why mongols? Why not huns or something? Guess someone must think mongols are cool. D:


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 16, 2008, 09:08:46 am
Serious question: Is there anything you can customise physically during the character creation screen? The face? Eye colour? Hairstyle? Size of breasts? Anything?

Hair, beard, hair and beard color, and face. Eye color is barely visible from the game's POV.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 16, 2008, 12:30:41 pm
Cool.  :) Nice job, Oscar.

A few poison kisses:
I agree - arms are too big/long, hands/feet are too big for a female. That girl in purple looks like gorilla because she has the wrong pair of upper extremities.

Also, while armor looks finely detailed and lavishly decorated, women's clothes appear a bit too plain (I am being gaylord here). And yes, those barbarian straps across nipples... ouch!   ;)




Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 16, 2008, 01:17:08 pm
Cool.  :) Nice job, Oscar.

A few poison kisses:
I agree - arms are too big/long, hands/feet are too big for a female. That girl in purple looks like gorilla because she has the wrong pair of upper extremities.

We are going to make the feet and hands smaller, and make the arms less fat, but shorter arms is difficult, because they use the same bones as the man for animations, and the hands must be at the exactly same place for both models.

Also, while armor looks finely detailed and lavishly decorated, women's clothes appear a bit too plain (I am being gaylord here). And yes, those barbarian straps across nipples... ouch!   ;)

The straps have soft cushions inside ;)

Anyway, those pictures do not represent how models look in the game, so I made some ISO shots. Please tell me any suggestions you have on these ones:

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9977/charactersiso2zt1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 16, 2008, 01:36:39 pm
I like the cleavage  :D

True, the arms don't look so disproportionate in this view.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Granite on August 16, 2008, 06:42:40 pm
Hair, beard, hair and beard color, and face. Eye color is barely visible from the game's POV.
What about the body size? Could we make the character to have an "abdomen of beer"?
Oh, that would be nice!!  :D


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Tigranes on August 17, 2008, 02:21:28 am
The first ISO model for example does somewhat have the Hulking Shoulders problem (seen in many games)... but it's not too bad. The fourth legionary looks like he stopped growing at 13, but again, not a big deal. I think the hands/feet size would have been the most important thing to differentiate, after looking at the models in OP.



Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Gareth on August 17, 2008, 03:05:32 am
You know, you could still get some use out of the bulkier female models that you have now...I see a comical sidequest where a male character has to infiltrate some sultan-like fellow's harem using the disguise skill and a stolen costume!

Hilarious misadventure ensues!  ;)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 17, 2008, 06:51:04 am
Apart from what already been said, the female boobs must be bigger, and their faces more female like.
They are looking too manly.
 


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 17, 2008, 08:36:06 am
their faces more female like. They are looking too manly.

You know, I made a beautiful face with using extra polygons, and then I went to an ISO view and... Well, it was the same  as the old one.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 17, 2008, 05:28:42 pm
I've added some new avatars (Check for one you like, Ellorien ;)), and replaced some old ones (merchants and nobles), which were made before I updated their textures.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 17, 2008, 06:08:04 pm
 lol



Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 17, 2008, 06:19:32 pm
Hey there, hot pants!


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 17, 2008, 06:42:40 pm
Now I won't confuse you with screeg. :)

Any suggestions for the female avatars, Ellorien?


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 17, 2008, 06:53:54 pm

You mean other avatars?

I really like this embroidered outfit. Much better than Adidas sweatpants and sport bra in the OP. Good job! Are you using these avatars in the forum only or they will be in the game?

Damn, the AoD release is probably delayed like for another year because of this...   :(


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 17, 2008, 07:17:38 pm
All these clothes are in the game. Adding those details took me 15 minutes, so it's no problem. I'm finishing the different hairs now. :)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 17, 2008, 07:33:58 pm
I think the avatars look fine. I really like them.



Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: GhanBuriGhan on August 18, 2008, 02:38:47 am
I think the female "eastern" model (top second from left) could use a belt,  brooch or clasp on the dress under the bosom - it is not clear what keeps the overcoat together, and it could be used to make it more easily identifyable as female. I also don't really like the cap on this one. Maybe something more like this:
(http://www.hcoa.org/images/arts/katz_art_4.jpg)
 I like the other models although they all have strong real world cultural vibes. We discussed that a while ago, so I know this is intentional. I do like that you chose some less "classic" eastern cultures as models though, that adds some character types not usually seen, which I appreciate. The overall impression is very solid, although not spectacular.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MF on August 18, 2008, 05:38:18 am
Just a point. A veil is a symbol of chastity. Why the fuck wear a bear-bellied bikini top with a veil?

Also, the bra thing....I don't like it. It screams anachronism, despite the setting being fictional. A strophium or something would be better. Just a tight band for athletic activities, and a tunic for everything else. Or just bare breasted, but I can see that raising some red flags.

Still, the weirdest thing is the combination of veil + bare belly. That's silly stuff for harem porn.

The girl armor with the chafing leather is ridiculous. It needs a strophium. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brassiere

I do like the textures, though, Oscar, great job.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 18, 2008, 08:25:22 am
Just a point. A veil is a symbol of chastity. Why the fuck wear a bear-bellied bikini top with a veil?

Still, the weirdest thing is the combination of veil + bare belly. That's silly stuff for harem porn.
That's historically accurate though. From the first belly dancing site I googled:

Quote
Moving further within a cultural framework, one is bound to discover the chador, usually navy blue or black headgear which falls over the face, bearing small similarities to a bridal veil and worn mostly for cultural modesty. Only the eyes show through and more often than not, netting covers the eyes. Below is an excerpt taken from The Illusive Veil.

"There were dances performed that used sheer diaphanous veils or handkerchiefs in other parts of the Middle Eastern world. In Azerbaijan, the people are a Turkic-speaking group from the Caucasus area. In the women's dances they use handkerchiefs, scarves, and veils to accentuate their feminine beauty. During the dances, they delicately reveal the eyes, the nose, the face and the richly costumed breasts. This is different from the veil as it is manipulated in Oriental dance because; in the Azeri women's dances, the veil is attached to a hat or a headdress. The freedom of movement is limited because of this, but the variety of gestures is still rich and varied."


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Scott on August 18, 2008, 09:19:17 am
...shorter arms is difficult, because the hands must be at the exactly same place for both models.

You mean at the end of the arm?

Great stuff all around.  Character-wise, I'd say your real world inspired designs easily compete with any AAA game I've seen.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 18, 2008, 10:58:37 am
It depends on how far Oscar and Vince want to go with clothes  and trinkets. They have to draw the line somewhere.

Here is something about belly dancing costumes that can serve as a source of inspiration:

http://aleena.com/gallery/morePhotos.html

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/bellydancingcostumes.htm


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MF on August 18, 2008, 12:33:30 pm
That's historically accurate though. From the first belly dancing site I googled:

I stand corrected. Still, though...bras. Why?


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Claw on August 18, 2008, 12:44:09 pm
Vince, you gotta change the hair of the female praetorian. Right now it looks more like a woollen cap, at least from this agnle.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 18, 2008, 01:11:08 pm
Vince, you gotta change the hair of the female praetorian. Right now it looks more like a woollen cap, at least from this agnle.

It's already changed. We have different hairs now.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 18, 2008, 01:35:30 pm
That's historically accurate though. From the first belly dancing site I googled:

I stand corrected. Still, though...bras. Why?
Good question, but I don't have the answer. Basically, we didn't want to go with bare boobs and put "something" on her. Something that goes with the original half naked look. I suppose we can put a full shirt on her, but then we probably would have to put a shirt on the male gladiator too.

Edit:

Quote
The girl armor with the chafing leather is ridiculous. It needs a strophium. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brassiere
I see your link and raise you this:

http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/classtud/cbaw/stafford.htm

"The strophion is usually just a cloth band tied around the breasts, though one example has shoulder straps, resembling a modern bra [see image above]; the strapless variety can also be seen in a number of Roman representations, which will be adduced as parallels."


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 18, 2008, 01:43:12 pm
Quote
I suppose we can put a full shirt on her, but then we probably would have to put a shirt on the male gladiator too.

I believe he is talking about the bra in the belly dancer, since that's what you were talking about...


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 18, 2008, 01:47:54 pm
I don't think so. "The girl armor...."


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MF on August 18, 2008, 02:12:54 pm
I don't think so. "The girl armor...."

Yeah, just to clarify : I meant both. I was saying that the bra on the belly dance is an anachronism that transcends fiction. VD just presented an example of a strophium with leather straps, which is sort of like a bra, I guess. Still, that thing on the belly dancer is just a bra. Bras are a very modern thing.

The other thing was that the gladiatress (is that a word? Firefox doesn't think so) would benefit from a cloth band around her breasts to prevent chafing and actually be able to perform athletics. Might be useful in battle not to have them bouncing around.

The common factor in those two points is that a cloth band is not a bra.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Fosse on August 18, 2008, 04:03:57 pm
Quote
is that a word?
No.  But "gladiator" is.  And it isn't sex specific.

I agree on the cloth band.  She needs something.  I don't know enough about bras or authentic looking ancient clothes to comment on the veiled woman.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Claw on August 18, 2008, 04:21:50 pm
It's already changed. We have different hairs now.
Maybe you really are a god.

Ptah?


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 18, 2008, 05:37:07 pm
Bras are a very modern thing.
Wiki disagrees with you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassiere#History

"Brassiere or bikini-like garments are depicted on some female athletes in the 1400s BC during the Minoan civilization era.
...
In China during the Ming dynasty a form of foundation clothe complete with cups and straps drawn over shoulders and tied to the girth seam at the lower back called a dudou was in vogue among the rich women."





Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MF on August 18, 2008, 06:40:36 pm
Wiki disagrees with you:

They're not bras. The Chinese things resemble bikinis, but the Roman things are just cloths tied directly over or just under the breasts.

But you know, I was probably fed too many Roman bathhouse fresco's in grammar school. To me, it's like a wristwatch in a Rubens painting, but I'm beginning to think I've underestimated the level at which the bra is being taken for granted.

I guess it works. But it feels out of place to me.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Scott on August 19, 2008, 07:43:03 am
I think you're all harping on too much about the technology and not enough about functionality.  It's an academic question whether the Romans wore bras.  The ability to weave cloth and tan leather existed, so in AoD there could be bras.

I think everyone agrees the strap across the boobulas just looks insufficient to the task at hand.  I think you should keep it for another model with a less physically challenging profession, like maybe just a slave running errands.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 19, 2008, 08:04:25 am
I think everyone agrees the strap across the boobulas just looks insufficient to the task at hand.

You are right.
The strap must be removed completely  (o)(o) :D
 


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Jedi_Learner on August 19, 2008, 08:29:03 am
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/970/charactersiso3mn9.jpg) (http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=575207&highlight=#575207)

Quote from: Vault Dweller on August 16, 2008, 12:57 AM (http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=575207&highlight=#575207)
Like this?

Yes, like this.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 19, 2008, 08:42:42 am
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/970/charactersiso3mn9.jpg) (http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=575207&highlight=#575207)

Quote from: Vault Dweller on August 16, 2008, 12:57 AM (http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=575207&highlight=#575207)
Like this?

Yes, like this.

What is the other alternative for this outfit ?


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 22, 2008, 04:42:30 pm
After listening to the feedback and the criticism, Ivan tweaked the female model. What do you think?

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5061/newfemalepo1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 22, 2008, 05:26:08 pm
Looks great!


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Fosse on August 22, 2008, 05:49:04 pm
Very much improved.  Well done. 

Those arms are still very lengthy though.  A developer posted a while ago that the hands for male and female models would have to be in the same place even if they are shaped differently, so I understand why the women have such preposterously lanky extremities, but it looks odd.

Would it be possible to meet in the middle?  Make the female and male models' arms a bit shorter?  I don't think losing an inch or two would make the men look goofy, and it might make the women look a lot less goofy.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 22, 2008, 05:52:29 pm
Those arms are still very lengthy though.  A developer posted a while ago that the hands for male and female models would have to be in the same place even if they are shaped differently, so I understand why the women have such preposterously lanky extremities...
To hug you better. Duh!

Quote
Would it be possible to meet in the middle?  Make the female and male models' arms a bit shorter?  I don't think losing an inch or two would make the men look goofy, and it might make the women look a lot less goofy.
That means changing more than 200 animations. It's not worth it, in my opinion.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Fosse on August 22, 2008, 06:31:22 pm
To hug you better. Duh!
I don't know.  I'm a pretty slender guy. 

Quote
That means changing more than 200 animations. It's not worth it, in my opinion.
Ah, well.  The improvements are still good.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: FireStomp on August 23, 2008, 11:38:26 am
The women's faces are what get to me, personally. I think it's that they have too much nose, and the face gets too small too quickly towards the chin. But I know next to nothing about facial structure, so I might just be crazy.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 24, 2008, 01:15:06 am
After listening to the feedback and the criticism, Ivan tweaked the female model. What do you think?

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5061/newfemalepo1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


The boobs still needs to be enlarged.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Tigranes on August 24, 2008, 02:23:35 am
Yeah, but you wouldn't want to end up with this, would you?

(http://www.ffinsider.net/final-fantasy-7/pix/Tifa.jpg)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 24, 2008, 03:56:08 am
Yeah, but you wouldn't want to end up with this, would you?

(http://www.ffinsider.net/final-fantasy-7/pix/Tifa.jpg)

Well.... I wouldn't mind actually ;)
As long as it won't be too childish or well...  "under 18" girls - I always disliked those way to young anime girls.
 


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: jeansberg on August 24, 2008, 06:06:33 am
Yeah, but you wouldn't want to end up with this, would you?

(http://www.ffinsider.net/final-fantasy-7/pix/Tifa.jpg)
Yes. He would.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 24, 2008, 08:17:37 am
After listening to the feedback and the criticism, Ivan tweaked the female model. What do you think?

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5061/newfemalepo1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


The boobs still needs to be enlarged.
This is the final model.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 24, 2008, 08:43:09 am
After listening to the feedback and the criticism, Ivan tweaked the female model. What do you think?

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5061/newfemalepo1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


The boobs still needs to be enlarged.
This is the final model.

Ho well , I HAD to try you know.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Nabonidus on August 24, 2008, 09:44:53 pm
Quote
is that a word?
No.  But "gladiator" is.  And it isn't sex specific.

I agree on the cloth band.  She needs something.  I don't know enough about bras or authentic looking ancient clothes to comment on the veiled woman.

Actually it is sex specific... A gladiatrix is a female gladiator. Latin has gendered vocabulary, as do all the romatic languages based upon it. This follows with words like dominator/dominatrix and so on.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Palmer Eldritch on August 25, 2008, 01:24:59 am
final models look much better.

most of them were fine, but the changes for the female models were necessary, imo.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: GhanBuriGhan on August 25, 2008, 02:42:21 am
After listening to the feedback and the criticism, Ivan tweaked the female model. What do you think?

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5061/newfemalepo1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


Looks good. I like the blue color better, as well.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Ellorien on August 25, 2008, 11:41:41 am
That anime girl is an abomination.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Vince on August 25, 2008, 11:43:35 am
Horrible. I refuse to believe that someone can find that appealing or, god forbid, sexy.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Jedi_Learner on August 25, 2008, 11:51:58 am
Whatever peels your banana, I suppose.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Tigranes on August 25, 2008, 06:10:06 pm
The subject of quite possibly the most hentai, fan-porn and adoring fan-fiction in history, actually.

I don't know. I loved that game when I was 10 and I still thought "man, those boobs could drown a cow in them".



Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 25, 2008, 06:40:26 pm
I don't know. I loved that game when I was 10 and I still thought "man, those boobs could drown a cow in them".

It was funny when in the ending sequence she climbed up a crater, and her boobs bounced off the floor when she reached the edge. The Advent Children version looks much better, though. But it doesn't beat the sexiness of this (http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2341/tifa5vv.jpg).


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: MaximB on August 26, 2008, 01:55:59 am
Horrible. I refuse to believe that someone can find that appealing or, god forbid, sexy.

I guess you are an "Ass" kind of guy ;)
I'm all for the boobs.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: jeansberg on August 26, 2008, 04:14:27 am
I guess he's a normal human proportions guy. ;)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: JESUS on August 26, 2008, 11:23:21 am
I don't know. I loved that game when I was 10 and I still thought "man, those boobs could drown a cow in them".

It was funny when in the ending sequence she climbed up a crater, and her boobs bounced off the floor when she reached the edge. The Advent Children version looks much better, though. But it doesn't beat the sexiness of this (http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2341/tifa5vv.jpg).

Oh my eyes!!! my eyes!!!

God damnit Oscar, you are supposed to set the parameters high for the forum you know. :)
Torturing us like that is just nasty.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Nick on August 26, 2008, 01:42:56 pm
God damnit

Aha, I knew you're not real Jesus!


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: grisse on August 26, 2008, 01:48:37 pm
God damnit

Aha, I knew you're not real Jesus!
He might be the bowling pedophile Jesus. Or the one who steals hubcaps from cars.


Come to think of it, pop culture does not treat Jesus kindly.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: JESUS on August 26, 2008, 02:29:45 pm
I'm more of a Buddy Jesus you know.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/pictures/Buddy-Jesus.jpg (http://www.truthaboutit.net/pictures/Buddy-Jesus.jpg)



[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 26, 2008, 02:35:52 pm
I'm more of a Buddy Jesus you know.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/pictures/Buddy-Jesus.jpg (http://www.truthaboutit.net/pictures/Buddy-Jesus.jpg)

Since you are from Rio, we thought that you were that huge concrete Jesus on the mountain. ;)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Sleet on August 26, 2008, 07:20:01 pm
I like the final models. Great work as always Oscar.
Keep the Hentai crap away - I would rather look at Vince's suggestion - which will give me nightmares anyway.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on August 26, 2008, 07:23:30 pm
I like the final models. Great work as always Oscar.

Well, Ivan did the change in the models, so the compliments should be for him. :)

I've textured both outfits, though :)


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Casaubon on September 02, 2008, 07:17:38 pm
The new models are clearly better, but still...  Oh well, it's not going to ruin the game or anything like that.
I prefer the more, uh, conservative? outfit. Maybe the belly dancer costume is historically accurate, but I dont think that people wore them in the streets, or in daily life. So it is fine in a lord's harem, or in a tavern, or in such places, but  as a normal, widespread outfit it would probably look out of place.

On a completely unrelated matter, I never know when I sould say "it isn't" and when "it's not". A mistery to me.


Title: Re: A Few Characters
Post by: Oscar on September 02, 2008, 07:39:58 pm
Quote
So it is fine in a lord's harem

That's where they are. :)