Iron Tower Studio Forums

RPG => The Age of Decadence => Topic started by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 09:17:48 am



Title: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 09:17:48 am
We switched to 1-10 skill system in R4. Why? The 1-100 system contributed greatly to meta-gaming and general confusion, because you had no clue what skills values really meant and how they benefited your character. Do you increase your key skills by 3-4 point? Does it matter? Do you get your best skill to the nearest ten?

We tried to make each investment useful by going with checks like 34, 37, 39, etc, but somehow it created even more uncertainty. In comparison, 1-10 is a lot more straightforward. Everything else stays the same: you get the same SP for quests and use them to buy skill ranks (similar to Bloodlines). We've already had different 'SP to skill values' conversation rates for higher skills, so the change is mostly cosmetic (so don't freak out) and is about how we present you the information necessary to make decisions.

All skills start at 1 and then each next level costs more skill points: 5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45, which brings the total costs to 5-15-30-50-75-105-140-180-225.

Also, your character's 'power level' wasn't clear. What did 50 points in Swords make you? A good swordsman? Average? So, each skill level would have a corresponding label:

1 - Unskilled
2 - Novice
3 - Apprentice
4 - Skilled
5 - Proficient
6 - Journeyman
7 - Adept
8 - Expert
9 - Master
10 - Grand Master

If you don't like some titles and have better suggestions, by all means...

We also want to add some descriptions indicating your proficiency level. Since I'm busy with other things, I'd really appreciate some help to speed things up a bit. I'm not even sure which direction we should take, so your opinions are welcome. I did a few skills (first draft just to see how it looks and yes, some lines suck, as expected):

Swords:

1.   You’re fairly certain that you stab them with the pointy end.
2.   You’ve added hacking and slashing to your repertoire.
3.   You’re discovered that swinging your sword wildly will only get you so far.
4.   You’ve learned to hit targets. Most of the time. If they don’t move.
5.   You’re getting the hang of it. Keep it up and you might become a competent swordsman one day.
6.   Better than average. And still alive. Better drink to that because the ‘still alive’ part might change without notice.
7.   You’re good with a sword. A lot of men died to make this dream a reality.
8.   Few men are as good as you are.
9.   When you carry a blade, you fear neither men nor demons.
10.   Come and get some!



Lore
1.   You can write your own name.
2.   You like looking through scrolls, especially the ones with drawings.
3.   You’re learned a few things here and there.
4.   You’ve realized that knowledge is power. Your enthusiasm for learning has never been greater.
5.   You are not quite a gentleman, but you’re definitely a scholar.
6.   You’ve learned much about the past and what you’ve learned drives you to seek more.
7.   You’re a linguist, historian, forger, and repairman. In short, you’re a loremaster.
8.   You’ve learned much, from steamworks to magick obscura
9.   You know … everything.
10.   You’re wiser than men who think that they know everything, for you realize that you know nothing.


Persuasion:

1.   You're able to communicate with other primates.
2.   You’ve discovered that the primates respond better to well-chosen words.
3.   You've learned to string words together for greater oratory effect.
4.   You're learned how to convince those who want to believe you.
5.   You’ve realized that Old Man Aesop was right: persuasion IS more effective than brute force.
6.   You’ve learned how to win friends and influence people.
7.   You’ve realized that persuasion is merely a prerequisite to manipulation.
8.   You will make a great ‘used carts’ salesman.
9.   People are an open book to you and you can talk them into just about anything.
10.   Your ability to influence minds is uncanny. Keep it up and they will burn you for witchcraft.



Streetwise:

1.   You're able to communicate with other primates.
2.   You’ve discovered that the primates respond better to well-chosen words.
3.   You've learned to string words together for greater oratory effect.
4.   You're learned that it’s easy to fool someone who believes everything you say.
5.   You’ve discovered that people respond best to lies they want to hear.
6.   You’ve learned to play on people’s fears, honor, ambitions, beliefs, and other useful qualities.
7.   It’s not a lie if you believe it.
8.   Some people turn water into wine, you turn lies into truth. Arguably, yours is a more useful talent.
9.   You will make a great ‘used carts’ salesman.
10.   Your ability to manipulate people is uncanny. Keep it up and they will burn you for witchcraft.


Dodge

1.   Being hit sucks. You’re positive about that.
2.   If only there was a way to avoid being hit…
3.   You’ve made an important discovery – moving out of harm’s way in a timely manner does wonders for one’ life  expectancy.
4.   Practice - if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a bolt!
5.   Half-way there.
6.   Your dedication to the art of dodging is paying off – you’re still alive.
7.   You’ve gained the much covered ‘hard to hit’ status.
8.   You flow like water and bend like a reed.
9.   You should open your own kung-fu school when you retire from adventuring.
10.   Untouchable (fine print: some exceptions apply)

Thoughts? Help?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 17, 2013, 10:57:06 am
My ego wishes to thank you for adopting my idea. :smug:

The labels seem mostly fine, the only one I'm not satisfied with is "skilled". To me the word skilled sounds like it should describe someone who is above average. I'd rather use something like "Half-trained" or "Semi-competent".

For proficiency level descriptions I would establish a default description that could apply across all skills before coming up with skill specific ones. The purpose of this is to standardise the levels of insults and praise so that descriptions are consistent between skills. The description for a specific skill should be roughly equivalent to the default description.

1: You completely suck.
2: You suck.
3: You kind of suck.
4: You almost don't suck anymore.
5: You're decent.
6: You're kind of good.
7: You're good.
8: You're very good.
9. You're the best.
10. You're the best ever. / You're better than the best.

Another general guidline I would impose is that each description should be able to stand on it's own. It's nice if a description of a higher proficiency builds up on the description of a lower proficiency, but it shouldn't require the player to have read the lower proficiency description in order to get the joke.


Sword

I mostly like the descriptions, though there is a typo in line 3. Should be "You've" instead of "You're". I'd also change a few lines a little.
2. You have added hacking and slashing to your repertoire and are no longer limited to stabbing them with the pointy end.
5. You’re getting the hang of it. Keep it up and you might become a good swordsman one day.

The change to 2 is in order to make the description work on it's own. The change to 5 is because "competent swordsman" implied that the player is currently an incompetent swordsman, which would make it sound like you're still below average.


Lore

Another typo. Line 3 should start with "You've" instead of "You're". Rank 10 sounds a little preachy, but I like the Socrates reference. Overall it looks good to me.

Persuasion

I love the first line, I couldn't stop laughing for 10 seconds after reading it. :approve: I like most of the other lines as well, with the exception of "You will make a great ‘used carts’ salesman." I would prefer something along the lines of "Your words are more dangerous than most swords."

Streetwise

It's visible that you were running out of ideas, considering how many of the lines are the same as the ones you used in Persuasion. And I think they do work better in Persuasion and should be used there. The lines that are unique are good though. No suggestions for new descriptions at the moment.

Dodge

I don't like it much because it breaks my second guideline too much. I feel like the descriptions of  the early proficiency levels tell a story of someone who got better at dodging more than they describe each individual level. The 6th line is cool, but doesn't say anything about how good you are. 7 and 8 are fine, I guess. I don't like that #9 references kung-fu. And #10 could work, but it feels a little uncreative.

No suggestions for replacement descriptions here either for now.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 17, 2013, 11:11:37 am
Hammers:

1. Yes, you swing with it.
2. Oh look, you can squash insects.
3. At least you won't hit yourself with it.
4. If only they would stand still, eh?
5. That's one way to pick a lock.
6. Not bad, you've learnt to crack a few bones with that.
7. That's a lot of flattened dreams and broken skulls.
8. No armor can save them.
9. Nothing like you and your hammer to send them running.
10. A one-man wrecking crew. Bravo.


Any good?

EDIT:
Also-

Stealing:

1. Maybe they shouldn't be looking while you're at it.
2. Ah, yes, move your fingers quickly. Who would have guessed.
3. You could successfully steal the money off a blind man. If it's dark. And if he's sleeping.
4. Distraction works, and you know it. Applying it, however...
5. Now if you could just get it out before they catch you.
6. You've acquired a fine way to get "discounts".
7. A little more finesse and you'll go far.
8. You'll get the better deal when shopping.
9. It's almost like they can't notice you. Almost.
10. Your hands are lightning. You'll get rich soon.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 17, 2013, 11:39:06 am
Good ones! What about the other skils? Keep them coming! :D


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 11:45:46 am
My ego wishes to thank you for adopting my idea. :smug:
:brofist:

Quote
1: You completely suck.
2: You suck.
3: You kind of suck.
4: You almost don't suck anymore.
5: You're decent.
6: You're kind of good.
7: You're good.
8: You're very good.
9. You're the best.
10. You're the best ever. / You're better than the best.
Makes sense.

Quote
Streetwise

It's visible that you were running out of ideas...
Being overloaded, I figured that I would cut a few corners by copy-pasting similar skills (like persuasion and streetwise, swords and daggers, etc) and just tweaking a few words. No good?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 17, 2013, 11:52:46 am
Ok, before I lose momentum:

Sneak:

1. No, you cannot hide by putting a pot on your head.
2. Move while they're not looking. Genius.
3. You know now that darkness can help.
4. Hiding behind curtains can work.
5. They won't see you. If you're miles away.
6. You could hide, but those flashy clothes might give you away.
7. You can stay still and be silent.
8. Most won't see you coming.
9. It'll take a trained eye to spot you.
10. Wraith. Spectre. Ghost.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 11:55:00 am
 :salute:


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 17, 2013, 12:03:41 pm
Axes:
1. You've learnt that axes aren't useful for wood alone.
2. Grabbing an axe by the handle is no longer impossible.
3. Now you can put some strength behind the blow.
4. You might even split a tree, but for now, you can cut plants.
5. You're getting better. You may no longer have to worry about cutting yourself.
6. Not many limbs stay together after you've dealt with them. Those that do might kill you, but hey.
7. Shield splitting is so easy now, you'd think you were highly incompetent once. Wait...
8. Those you face you may never be whole again.
9. Meat and wood alike tremble cower in your presence.
10. Run away, the butcher is in town.


Not as good, I feel. Will get back to this later.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 17, 2013, 12:18:23 pm
Alchemy:
1. Wine and gunpowder do not mix. Lesson learnt.
2. You've learnt not to mistake acid for body wash oil. It'll heal, do not worry.
3. You poisons are feared, or you're a terrible chef.
4. The healing salves you brew work. They might smell and sting, but at least they don't make you nauseous anymore.
5. You've learnt to store it all in bottles. Your progress is certain. So far.
6. You can throw a bomb or two. You might explode with them, but's that just a minor detail.
7. Your poisons not only kill, they make your foes scream in pain. It's now just a matter of applying it on them.
8. You are sufficiently competent to know when someone is trying to slip one on you.
9. Your flasks are a greater terror than most soldiers.
10. All you have to do is show an empty goblet and they will beg for mercy.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 17, 2013, 12:53:44 pm
Nice ones :salute:


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Ergil on May 17, 2013, 12:54:42 pm
The weapon skill descriptions don't really seem to match the in-game experience, at least in R3. The special effects increase pretty slowly with skill, and THC is capped so against a lot of opponents high skill means little to nothing, especially with light weapons. The difference between 50 sword skill and 90 sword skill sure doesn't feel like the difference between "You're getting the hang of it" and "You fear neither men nor demons", for example.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: MaximillionMiles on May 17, 2013, 01:01:02 pm
I like the changes, and my ego also likes the opportunity, as Dragatus said.   :smug:

Here is my first:

Trading

1-   You like shiny things.
2-   Being in debt is a bad thing?
3-   Easy come, easy go.
4-   Buy low and sell high, sure. But how?
5-   Greed is good. You can exploit it.
6-   If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
7-   You can make anyone an offer that they can’t refuse.
8-   What makes a jewel different from colored glass? The price.
9-   When your goods don’t cross borders, your soldiers do.
10-   Money moves the world. And you move the money.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 17, 2013, 01:10:19 pm
The weapon skill descriptions don't really seem to match the in-game experience, at least in R3. The special effects increase pretty slowly with skill, and THC is capped so against a lot of opponents high skill means little to nothing, especially with light weapons. The difference between 50 sword skill and 90 sword skill sure doesn't feel like the difference between "You're getting the hang of it" and "You fear neither men nor demons", for example.

Weapons won't get that much THC as bonus in R4.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 17, 2013, 01:12:09 pm
I like the changes, and my ego also likes the opportunity, as Dragatus said.   :smug:

Here is my first:

Trading

1-   You like shiny things.
2-   Being in debt is a bad thing?
3-   Easy come, easy go.
4-   Buy low and sell high, sure. But how?
5-   Greed is good. You can exploit it.
6-   If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
7-   You can make anyone an offer that they can’t refuse.
8-   What makes a jewel different from colored glass? The price.
9-   When your goods don’t cross borders, your soldiers do.
10-   Money moves the world. And you move the money.


Awesome! Something to keep in mind, as you did here, is to make the ones from point 5 onwards more positive.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: MidnightSun on May 17, 2013, 01:17:39 pm
Quote
If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Sounds good for streetwise.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: MaximillionMiles on May 17, 2013, 02:10:16 pm
Quote
If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Sounds good for streetwise.
True.
Maybe "If it sounds too good to be true, it is" could be used for streetwise, and in trading that line could be exchanged for. "Everyone has a key. Whether gold, prestige or power, when you know the key, they are in your grasp."

Or something like that. When making these lists, some of the numbers will usually be better than others. I think people who have a better idea for the weaker ones can post just one single line, instead of a whole list.  :)

Edit:

Lockpick

1-   Who needs to pick locks when you have an axe?
2-   You can open any lock... As long as you have the mold of the key, an available smith and enough time to craft a copy.
3-   You know the old “slip the knife between the door and the frame” trick. That counts as lockpicking, right?
4-   You can move a pin around to pick simple locks.
5-   You can use a Torsion Wrench pretty well.
6-   You know the most common locking mechanisms, and their weaknesses.
7-   With enough time, most locks can be picked. Unfortunately, you never get that much time.
8-   No safe is safe from you.
9-   What one man can create, you can bypass.
10-   Even the craftsmen magi of legends would not be able to bar your way.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on May 17, 2013, 02:22:22 pm
Spears:
1. Handle it the other way around, or you gonna hurt yourself.
2. Once you cooked a chicken with a spittle.
3. Now you can hurt a straw dummy really badly.
4. You can hunt down a cow, but hardly defeat the farmer.
5. At this point you can enroll for pitchfork militia.
6. The stone-age thrusting instincts can lead you to victory now and then.
7. Occasionally sculptors use you as a model for Neptune statues.
8. You can make a whole-carcass shish-kebab for cannibals. Or of cannibals.
9. You could teach Spartans a lot.
10. They shall not pass!


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 17, 2013, 02:27:39 pm
Some random lines, they are not very good, but can help for inspiration:

Traps

- When you see a line attached to a door you get suspicious.

Disguise

- You learned that wearing a fake mustache doesn't make you another person.
- Not even your own mother could recognize you.

Bow

- Where does the arrow go?
- You can't even draw a bow correctly.
- At least your arrows can fly a few meters.
- Kill a flying bird? No problem.

Throwing

- When you play darts everyone leaves the room.
- You can hit a bottle with a pebble!

Critical Strike

- You know the location every main artery of the human body.

Etiquette

- You learned not to pick your nose in front of others.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on May 17, 2013, 02:59:12 pm
Crafting:
1. The blacksmith could entrust you to operate the bellows.
2. Horseshoes! Bronze nails! Cheap!
3. You can run a serious business fixing farmers' utensils.
4. If given a bucket and a scythe you can make a helmet and a sword.
5. The schematics don't look all Greek to you anymore.
6. Your products meet the Imperial Guards' standards. But they still don't pay you well.
7. Some of your products can even be bought by kings, to be used for ceremonial purposes.
8. Now you can even work with precious metals without wasting half of your ore.
9. Someone suspects these are magical enhancements you apply on weapons and armors.
10. You produce things worth warlords and gods. Pity the latter don't put orders often.


PS: Some ideas

Blocking
1. Careful not to drop it, you may break your foot.
8. The next thing your opponents face after your shield is a casket lid.

Throwing
7. When you juggle knives for fun many witnesses feel rather uneasy.

Critical strike
6. You really know how to make it hurt.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: MaximillionMiles on May 17, 2013, 03:43:48 pm
- You learned not to pick your nose in front of others.
:lol: That one's funny. I tried to make my own version of etiquette a little different, however. Basically, as different greetings that get more elaborate and humble as they go. Not sure if it work though. Opinions?

Ettiquete

1-   “Heya, Mister Empreror! How’s it hanging?”
2-   “Why all these fancy words? I can’t even get what you’re saying!”
3-   “Oops! I forgot to bow.”
4-   “Greetings, Lord, and thank you for your time”
5-   “I am honored by your presence and attention, my Lord.”
6-   “I beg your pardon for my intrusion, my Lord, and hope the value of my words will earn your forgiveness.”
7-   “My humble greetings to you, my Lord. I bow beneath your might and humbly request but a moment of your attention”
8-   “As the sages say, “Wise is the emperor who listens even to the barking of dogs, for he will always know when danger approaches.” With this in mind, will you grant me audience, your Lordship?”
9-   “Your Lordship, may your walk eternally among the glory of your works. This servant, who is not fit to walk in your shadow, in his infinite weakness, requests your words and your wisdom.”
10-   “Your most August Lordship, I am unworthy of such a kind gift as your attention. And if I accept this gift, it is for no reason other than I am certain that I shall use it only to benefit you and your cause further.”


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 03:56:26 pm
Awesome!


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Harlath on May 17, 2013, 04:09:29 pm
How will the change to skill rankings interact with critical strike, which previously increased by 1 each time it was used in a text adventure?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: RandomName on May 17, 2013, 04:11:16 pm
I hope you'll forgive, contrary to  your request in the OP, a mild freak-out.  

If my math is correct, it currently costs 170 SP to raise a skill from 20 (where they start) to 100.  225 is a much bigger number than 170.  If SP gain has not been adjusted, that seems like it will make the game much, much harder than R3.

Do we know that any non Ergil/Vahabyte level players can complete combat paths in R4?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 05:13:31 pm
How will the change to skill rankings interact with critical strike, which previously increased by 1 each time it was used in a text adventure?
We're still discussing it.

Option 1 - instead of raising the skill by 1 every time you kill in dialogue, you'll have to kill 5 people to raise the skill from 2 to 3, 7 from 3 to 4, etc.
Option 2 - increase your chance to score a critical by 1% (permanently) every time you kill in dialogue.

We're leaning toward option 2 at the moment.

I hope you'll forgive, contrary to  your request in the OP, a mild freak-out. 

If my math is correct, it currently costs 170 SP to raise a skill from 20 (where they start) to 100.  225 is a much bigger number than 170.  If SP gain has not been adjusted, that seems like it will make the game much, much harder than R3.
Your math is correct. I feel that on average the player was getting too many skill points after Teron, which really wasn't an issue due to the difficulty but called for some mechanisms to slow him down a bit to avoid maxing the primary skill in Maadoran and surrounding areas. Originally, the split was 1-50, 51-75, 76-100 (for skill points to skill values ratios). We changed it to 51-70, 71-90, 91-100 to slow you down, but it wasn't enough. The new system should help a lot.

Quote
Do we know that any non Ergil/Vahabyte level players can complete combat paths in R4?
It hasn't been tested yet. If we erred on the side of caution and made the game much harder, we'll give you more skill points


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: RandomName on May 17, 2013, 06:28:28 pm
I'd like to chime in with an enthusiastic vote for Option 2 on how to handle CS.  It seems both simpler and preferable from a balance standpoint.  

I can understand wanting to slow down player skill gain (after all, I had one character with 100 spear, 57 CS, 54 dodge and 50 crafting in the R3 demo), but I do think this nerf is probably too harsh.  It will demand harshly optimized builds and/or a tedious level of munchkinism to be successful in combat paths unless SP gain is increased or opposing NPC strength is nerfed.  Personally, I think there should be a reasonable range of viable combat builds, and hope that will be the case in R4/the full game as released.

Off topic, but I've not noticed much discussion of the alchemy section on the forums.  Would feedback on what alchemical products are/are not useful in the demo (so far as I've been able to determine) be useful?  Or has the system changed such that R3 alchemy balance isn't applicable to where R4 is going to be at?

Edit:  A thing to note is that much of the feedback has come from the more enthusiastic, experienced players, such as Vahabyte, Ergil and myself.  Most players probably won't go to the same immersion-breaking lengths to wring every SP out of the game that we have, and I'd hate if we broke the difficulty curve for people who want to play the game rather than plan the playthrough first on a spreadsheet to optimize their SP gain.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: RandomName on May 17, 2013, 06:46:06 pm
Dagger:

1. Put that down before you poke an eye out.

2. Congratulations!  You've discovered that both edges of a dagger are sharp!  Don't worry, the bleeding should stop soon, and a cut that small will heal right up. 

3. You're now somewhat more likely to survive a bandit attack if you're carrying a dagger rather than going unarmed. 

4. Parrying works better with shields than with daggers.   You've got this down and you're not even dead yet!

5. Boatmen no longer laugh out loud when they see you draw your dagger.  They only laugh silently.

6. No one's laughing when you hold a dagger now.  They might not fear you yet, but no one is laughing. 

7. You've been through enough knife fights that the correct movements are usually automatic.

8. Fight has become a dance, and the music is beginning to flow through you.

9. With a dagger in your hand, you move like a mongoose and strike like a cobra.

10.  You have become death, the destroyer of worlds.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 17, 2013, 07:20:57 pm
I got a few more-

Intimidation(Is this a skill? I forget):
1. You'd do better if you didn't tremble so much.
2. You might scare a child or two, if they don't scare you.
3. You can intimidate better with a deep growl. Which means you need to stop whimpering.
4. You've learnt to stare and look angry. An old crone just might be cowed, you bully.
5. You can scare a few, and some will scare you.
6. No one will laugh at you again.
7. Now they won't laugh behind you either.
8. It'd take nerves of steel not to be cowed by you.
9. If you say jump, they'll jump.
10. If a glare could kill, you'd slaughter armies.

Barter:
1. Two and two make four.
2. You can just barely grasp the concept of profit and loss.
3. Buy cheap, sell expensive. Wow.
4. People just might buy what they want at higher prices.
5. You just might break even. Or get completely ripped off.
6. You can haggle until you get tired of it.
7. Your trades are largely profitable.
8. You can buy gold at the price of copper.
9. You could make someone sell their own mother to you.
10. And sell that mother back to them, making massive profits.

Persuasion:
1. You can add "please" at the end of a sentence.
2. You can avoid giving obvious signs that you are lying. You just can't tell a good lie though.
3. You persuade someone well, if they are on your side to begin with.
4. You'd win an aargument. With yourself.
5. You've learnt debating, arguing, and reasoning. At least you've learnt that they are not the same.
6. You can sway people to your side with some effort.
7. You've learnt the art of using another's perspective to your advantage.
8. Most people would believe anything you say.
9. Your words are more dangerous than weapons.
10. You could convinve fire that it's wet.

Streetwise:
1. Keep your eyes open.
2. YOu're not easily distrac-butterflies!
3. You can tell when someone's lying. With the power of hindsight.
4. You can smell a rat. Occasionally.
5. You're not infallible, but you're no simpleton.
6. Picking your pocket is not as easy as it looks.
7. Your instinct guides you well enough.
8. You're sharp and alert.
9. It'd take a lot of illusions to dull your suspicions a little.
10. Demons couldn't fool you. Mortals are nothing.

Lore:
1. You can tell the letters apart, once in a while.
2. You can  write your name.
3. You can tell which way is north on a map.
4. You can tell how old something, if it's rusted.
5. Books do not scare you anymore.
6. You understand much of the old ways.
7. You're no loremaster, but you're better than most by far.
8. History is rarely a mystery to you.
9. It takes a brief glance for you to tell everything about a relic.
10. In time, you may forget what loremasters would barely even know.

Throwing:
1. No, it's not the same as dropping the weapon.

Spears:
10. Generations to come will call your handiwork "Perforation".

Bows:
1. You can pull the string.
2. Pointing in their direction certainly helps.


Dodge:
9. You could nearly dance the fight away.(In lieu of the kung fu thing.)


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 17, 2013, 07:35:49 pm
I can understand wanting to slow down player skill gain (after all, I had one character with 100 spear, 57 CS, 54 dodge and 50 crafting in the R3 demo), but I do think this nerf is probably too harsh.  It will demand harshly optimized builds and/or a tedious level of munchkinism to be successful in combat paths unless SP gain is increased or opposing NPC strength is nerfed.  Personally, I think there should be a reasonable range of viable combat builds, and hope that will be the case in R4/the full game as released.
There should be a reasonable range, but there is nothing reasonable about the build you mentioned. Still, the goal isn't to weaken an average build but make it harder to max skills. Hopefully, you'd agree that you don't need to have 90-100 to be a good fighter.

Quote
Off topic, but I've not noticed much discussion of the alchemy section on the forums.  Would feedback on what alchemical products are/are not useful in the demo (so far as I've been able to determine) be useful?  Or has the system changed such that R3 alchemy balance isn't applicable to where R4 is going to be at?
Yes, the feedback was very weak. Most of it came from the testers (on the testers' forum). The feedback would be useful, of course, so if you have some comments, start a new thread and hopefully more people would weigh in.



Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: RandomName on May 17, 2013, 08:58:29 pm
90-100 weapon skill isn't needed in the demo, but most good combat builds will have at least 70 skill in two combat related skills (crafting, weapon, defense and CS included in this category) with a third at 50.  Hitting that mark, a thoroughly average combat build to end the demo with, currently requires 170 SP.  After this nerf, it will cost 260 SP.  That is brutal.  It's not like the game was a cakewalk at R3 skill cost levels. 

I dunno, I'm thinking a freak out is pretty justified here...


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 17, 2013, 09:59:33 pm
90-100 weapon skill isn't needed in the demo, but most good combat builds will have at least 70 skill in two combat related skills (crafting, weapon, defense and CS included in this category) with a third at 50.  Hitting that mark, a thoroughly average combat build to end the demo with, currently requires 170 SP.  After this nerf, it will cost 260 SP.  That is brutal.  It's not like the game was a cakewalk at R3 skill cost levels. 

I dunno, I'm thinking a freak out is pretty justified here...

I think not, we are going to balance the fights. We are not going to just slap a change and don't test it. Have a little faith in our design abilities ;)


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: RandomName on May 17, 2013, 10:24:03 pm
Fair enough.  I was making unwarranted assumptions based on my reading of the OP; it seemed to suggest the skill system change was basically cosmetic and made no mention of altering the difficulty of NPC opponents.  Of course, alter the skill system AND the opponents, and it is basically cosmetic, the OP is accurate as well as correct that there is no freak out required, and I'm a bit of an idiot :). 


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on May 18, 2013, 12:51:05 am
Why change the difficulty of combat encounters if things can be corrected by modifying SP gain for quests?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 18, 2013, 01:39:13 am
Quote
Streetwise

It's visible that you were running out of ideas...
Being overloaded, I figured that I would cut a few corners by copy-pasting similar skills (like persuasion and streetwise, swords and daggers, etc) and just tweaking a few words. No good?

That would be a reasonable aproach if you did it all by yourself because you've got plenty of other things to work on. But since you outsourced the job of making the descriptions to the fans I think every skill should have unique descriptions.

Why change the difficulty of combat encounters if things can be corrected by modifying SP gain for quests?

I can think of two reasons: realism and variety of character builds.

For realism, AoD is not a game where a player should have too many high skills. Regardless of whatever build you end up having, it should be believable that a human could achieve it.

As for variety, it's not so clear cut whether inceasing SP would improve or reduce it, but basically you can create the largest number of different builds when the amount of SP you get is somewhere in the middle.


OK, now let me give it a try:

Bow

1. You're more likely to hurt your forearm than to hit the target.
2. You still have trouble hitting your targets, but at least you stopped hurting your forearm when firing arrows.
3. You can hit a stationary target. At close range. If there is no wind.
4. If the conditions are favorable your arrows tend to hit stationary targets, just not exactly where you aimed at.
5. You've become a decent archer. With a little luck you can even hit moving targets.
6. Your arrows find their targets more often than not, even if the target is moving.
7. Your arrows strike true.
8. Few archers can match your skill.
9. People swear that they've seen your arrows seek out their targets on their own.
10. If it rains you can stay dry by shooting raindrops out of the sky.

As someone who has recently picked up archery I can vouch for the truth of the first two lines.  :smug:


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: AbounI on May 18, 2013, 05:59:54 am
Awesome work all.

May I suggest you to place nice easter egg in somme description, like the "arrow in the knee" or the "never ask for this".Such description would fit, no?

like bow: unskilled: "you know to shoot your own knee"  :lol:

Couldn't be the same things be applied for the six stats?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: MidnightSun on May 18, 2013, 06:50:37 am
Max. sword skill - "Sword of the morning". Hellz, yeah.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 18, 2013, 10:44:54 am
That would be a reasonable aproach if you did it all by yourself because you've got plenty of other things to work on. But since you outsourced the job of making the descriptions to the fans I think every skill should have unique descriptions.
I concur.



Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 18, 2013, 11:26:40 am
Max. sword skill - "Sword of the morning". Hellz, yeah.

Nice one :D


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: vincentvega on May 18, 2013, 01:33:11 pm
I'm not sure about all of this,I was "hoping" for the etiquettes and I'm happy about them,even though the new range makes it simpler to understand how good you are...but the descriptions seem very unnecessary,they're funny and all but add nothing in my opinion..


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: 100kg on May 18, 2013, 01:49:55 pm
What about bonus points to skills which you can get during text adventures? For example
(click to show/hide)
?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 18, 2013, 02:03:10 pm
What about bonus points to skills which you can get during text adventures? For example
(click to show/hide)
?

That's a good point. Unlike as with Critical Strike, you can't just increase CS chance permanently.

Maybe they could reduce the cost of increasing the skill? So if your Etiquette is 2 it normally costs 10 sp to improve it, but if you get a +1 Etiquette bonus from a TA the cost drops to 9.

Edit: I also considered increasing the skill by 1, but only if it's low enough. This aproach was used in Bloodlines and it didn't work out that well, since it encourages the player to have the skill at a specific value (the highest it can be which still allows you toget the bonus). And then we have the metagaming complaint again.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 18, 2013, 02:33:57 pm
What about bonus points to skills which you can get during text adventures? For example
(click to show/hide)
?

That's a good point. Unlike as with Critical Strike, you can't just increase CS chance permanently.

Maybe they could reduce the cost of increasing the skill? So if your Etiquette is 2 it normally costs 10 sp to improve it, but if you get a +1 Etiquette bonus from a TA the cost drops to 9.

That's a possibility, but we don't like it much. We are more interested in converting those situations into perks with unique gameplay consequences, but we'll see about it.

Edit: I also considered increasing the skill by 1, but only if it's low enough. This aproach was used in Bloodlines and it didn't work out that well, since it encourages the player to have the skill at a specific value (the highest it can be which still allows you toget the bonus). And then we have the metagaming complaint again.

We definitely won't do that.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Wrath of Dagon on May 18, 2013, 11:35:42 pm
How about awarding SP depending on where you are in the game, instead of as a reward for what you do?  It would make different paths easier to balance and make the game more replayable if you didn't feel obligated to do every side quest on every replay. Also the more you fight, the harder the subsequent battles should be (that is the enemies would gain the SP), because if you fight a lot you don't want to be rewarded with easier battles, you want harder ones. This would also make a character who only fights occasionally actually be able to win a battle now and then.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 19, 2013, 02:07:40 am
@Oscar
I like the sound of special perks.

@Wrath of Dagon
I'm sceptical about the first suggestion.

The player needs to be rewarded for completing side quests and SP are the simplest and most appreciated reward available. In addition many of the optional quests require more effort and a better developed character than if you just do what's required to move the story forward.

The more you fight, the harder battles become is interesting, but I'm afraid it would come out as too "gamey". It would make sense in cases when the opposition knows that you might be coming, but otherwise it could feel artificial. It also smells a bit of leveling and I already get enough of that in TES.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Wrath of Dagon on May 19, 2013, 01:02:02 pm
I don't know why a player needs to be rewarded for sidequests. You do them to see the content and as a challenge, but other than that you shouldn't have to keep doing the same things over and over even though you're following different paths through the game, it really gets tedious. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get some money or a one time use item as a reward. As far as harder battles being gamey, I think too much realism hurts gameplay. Plus in addition to sending tougher enemies against you, people tend to step up their game when challenged, there's any number of real world examples for that, so that is fairly realistic as well.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 21, 2013, 08:52:09 am
Maybe I've been condition by all the RPGs I've played, but it doesn't feel like a quest unless I get some EXP out of it.

I do agree that doing the same things over and over again while trying to follow different paths does get tedious, but I don't think that's going to really be an issue in AoD since you have so many ways to aproach each situation.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Ergil on May 21, 2013, 11:48:03 am
- You learned not to pick your nose in front of others.
:lol: That one's funny. I tried to make my own version of etiquette a little different, however. Basically, as different greetings that get more elaborate and humble as they go. Not sure if it work though. Opinions?

Ettiquete

1-   “Heya, Mister Empreror! How’s it hanging?”
2-   “Why all these fancy words? I can’t even get what you’re saying!”
3-   “Oops! I forgot to bow.”
4-   “Greetings, Lord, and thank you for your time”
5-   “I am honored by your presence and attention, my Lord.”
6-   “I beg your pardon for my intrusion, my Lord, and hope the value of my words will earn your forgiveness.”
7-   “My humble greetings to you, my Lord. I bow beneath your might and humbly request but a moment of your attention”
8-   “As the sages say, “Wise is the emperor who listens even to the barking of dogs, for he will always know when danger approaches.” With this in mind, will you grant me audience, your Lordship?”
9-   “Your Lordship, may your walk eternally among the glory of your works. This servant, who is not fit to walk in your shadow, in his infinite weakness, requests your words and your wisdom.”
10-   “Your most August Lordship, I am unworthy of such a kind gift as your attention. And if I accept this gift, it is for no reason other than I am certain that I shall use it only to benefit you and your cause further.”

I don't think etiquette is the same as sucking up. Isn't it supposed to mean "how to behave in polite society"? That does include sucking up on occasion, but also stuff like table manners, dress code, maybe even knowing how to waltz. Plus the last three sentences seem way exaggerated, even for a nobody like the PC at the beginning of the game, and certainly later on when the PC has (presumably) acquired some influence and recognition.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: MaximillionMiles on May 21, 2013, 01:02:03 pm
Quote
-snip-

I don't think etiquette is the same as sucking up. Isn't it supposed to mean "how to behave in polite society"? That does include sucking up on occasion, but also stuff like table manners, dress code, maybe even knowing how to waltz. Plus the last three sentences seem way exaggerated, even for a nobody like the PC at the beginning of the game, and certainly later on when the PC has (presumably) acquired some influence and recognition.

Depending on the context, place or culture, ettiquete could vary wildly from never turning your back from royalty, to always taking a small sip from your cup before passing it on, to prostrating yourself and speaking only in a ridiculously humble form. The last was especially common in  China, Korea and Japan, where there is almost a different language for speaking to your superiors. This kind of speech, even that seen at number 10, was not seen as sucking up, but instead was seen as normal in certain cultures/ages for a low-born addressing royalty.

Of course, I have no idea what is the code of conduct in AoD's world.

Anyways, it was merely supposed to be examples. Nothing to split hairs. If there are many others who dislike it they can give suggestions to improve my work, or make a new list. No hard feelings.  ;)


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on May 21, 2013, 01:48:09 pm
I don't think etiquette is the same as sucking up. Isn't it supposed to mean "how to behave in polite society"?
Correct. The best analogy would be approaching a bureaucrat with a bribe. You have to know how these things are done, what protocol is, and how to give the money to the scumbag without implying that he is, in fact, a scumbag.

An in-game example:

“Your master gives me too much credit. What does he wish to know?”
1. “Lord Gaelius’ days are numbered. Will you support lord Serenas as his successor?”
2. [etiquette] “Since Lord Gaelius doesn’t have an heir, my master can’t help but wonder if lord Serenas would make a suitable replacement, should something were to happen to Lord Gaelius.”



Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 21, 2013, 11:53:39 pm
Does anyone else think "should something were to happen" sounds a bit clunky? Wouldn't "should something happen" or "if something were to happen" be better?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: GhanBuriGhan on May 22, 2013, 02:16:52 am
Probably too late to the party, but here's an attempt anyway:

Lockpick

1 - If it's locked, that means you're not supposed to open it, right?
2 - If one doesn't have the key, one could use the spare key!
3 - Your cousin told you how he used a rusty nail to break into the barn once. He is awesome!
4 - You managed to break into the bathroom door once.
5 - Simple locks are not that secure, given a lot of time and some tools.
6 - Once you know the layout of most locks, there is a way to pick them.
7 - Ah! You learned a number of great tricks and got some professional tools. It helps so much.
8 - There is hardly a lock you don't know how to break. In theory.
9 - Locks? A minor inconvenience. You'll ge in, you'll get out, and nobody will even know how.
10 - The only lock you can not defeat is one you design yourself.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: GhanBuriGhan on May 22, 2013, 04:42:45 am
Disguise:

1 - Disguise? Thats what fools do during carnival!
2 - The neighbors children really liked it when you played the bear for them.
3 - You realize that sometimes changing the way you present yourself can get you things.
4 - A little acting can go a long way to convince people.
5 - It's surprising how easy it is to fool people that aren't paying attention.
6 - You realize it's not really the disguise, it's posture, voice, confidence!
7 - Be it a beggar or a king, you can act it. But it's still acting.
8 - It's an art. A very useful art once you know how.
9 - You could fool your own mother, if you have time to prepare.
10 - Being anyone, anytime, anywhere - that is true freedom.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: GhanBuriGhan on May 22, 2013, 07:34:34 am
Coffee-break:

Crossbow:

1 - Why would you put a cross on a bow? Bows are perfectly fine the way they are!
2 - Why use something that's so slow to reload!
3 - Aim in the general direction and pull the trigger? Got it!
4 - There is power in this weapon, if you could only hold it steady...
5 - Align the sights, breathe out, fire!
6 - You've become quite good with the practice target. Now if only real targets wouldn't move!
7 - Practice has paid off, you hit what you want to hit, most of the time.
8 - Known for your keen eye, you are often asked for advice on this weapon.
9 - Few match your mastery - balance, keen sight, concentration, all must be in harmony.
10 - You are a legend with the crossbow, people believe you can even shoot it around corners.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 22, 2013, 09:49:48 am
Awesome descriptions, Ghan. Especially love the disguise ones!


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 22, 2013, 09:50:45 am
Okey, let's see-

Etiquette-
1. Subtlety to you is a hammer to the head. A small one, though.
2. You see the sense in making a threat without waving it in someone's face. In practice, however.
3. You can make subtle hints, emphasized with a wink and a nudge.
4. You can barely fill a form now.
5. You find yourself capable of getting an appointment with officials. It's a  start.
6. Sure it's a bribe. But when you put it like that, it's hard to say no.
7. To say your mind, and yet offend no one. Quite a feat.
8. You are eminently reasonable, and curiously persuasive.
9. What gravity, what regality, what grace, what august bearing! Majestic.
10. You are nearly mistaken for royalty these days. It is whispered that you are descended of the rulers of long ago.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Gasiass on May 22, 2013, 10:04:17 am
It seems evident how much an amount in a skill is worth.  The accuracy of the opponent and evasiveness shows how much that much in a skill is how much was put in to it - or came out of it, where reputation precedes display.  The aptitude of a tailor, a peasant, and a street scrounger show how much the amount they honed their way with the particular style.  Likewise in magnitude, the capacity in other skills shows how much their honing of that application has preceded.  The starting stats are about that of embarker on a means.  It seems as though there should be more points, so a greater amount can be put in skills other than combat, so a master sneaker needs 75 points, like a master swordsman needs 75 points.  So an devoted weapon wielder would have an dismal time getting by doing much else, as an entirely gentile type would have a haranguing time getting through many oncoming situations.   As a system note, refined practices could have a roll in reducing the difficulty of fights, as with poisoning the gaurds to the outpost.  The guy who charges into a mass of opponents by himself is either ridiculously talented, or not good at much else.

For continuation of the system (in particular for lore):
11. "What do you mean!?!  I already said I was the best!  And what do you mean I have to pay for that ale; it's a Q'antaari demon manifested in there by a great expulsion of the cosmos to accentuate the importance of this situation!

For dodge, I skipped to the last one, but I'm not so sure about the side note, after those other things you tried to do to me.
You could put it another way.
Dodge
1. I prefer using my head as my primary implement of impact.
2. I like to try to choke my opponent on my blood.
...


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 24, 2013, 09:59:16 pm
Oh, I got one more.

Block:
1. You can effectively block any blow. As long as there is a building between you and the other guy.
2. You have mastered the art of using shields to stay dry when it's raining.
3. You've learnt to put the shield on front of you. You wonder how you missed that before.
4. You've realised that a shield is not a wall, and you need to move it about every now and then to stay alive.
5. While your blocking is passable, axemen will wreck you. Bring spares.
6. Projectiles have a harder time hitting you. No cutlery/crockery was harmed during practice.
7. You're getting better at positioning your shield to lessen the impact of blows. Your shields last longer.
8. You use your shields so well that blows are more likely to glance off harmlessly.
9. You're especially competent at using your shield to bash people around. Defense is the best offense.
10. A shield IS a wall between you and the enemy. One they cannot get around.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: UniversalWolf on May 26, 2013, 03:36:59 pm
Etiquette, from 1 to 10:

You fart, then laugh.
You wipe your nose with your sleeve.
There are grease stains on your shirt.
Typical stable boys regard you as an equal.
Your manners are suitable to common intercourse.
Priests and merchants find you a boon dining companion.
Well-bred town maidens find little to criticize in your demeanor.
Upon greeting a landed equestrian, it is proper to doff your cap so.
You move among society's wealthy elite without embarrassment.
You confidently participate in the most esoteric social rituals.

Streetwise, from 1 to 10:

Oh, excuse me.  Wait!  Where's my wallet?
You are a rube.
Grifters instantly spot you as a mark.
You keep lending things to people who never return them.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
People have to earn your trust.
You're quite capable of recognizing a gullible fool.
You can smell a con from a mile away.
People give you things and think it was their own idea.
Your mind facilely weaves multiple schemes into an elegant tapestry.



Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Brandon on May 27, 2013, 10:07:56 pm
... you get the same SP for quests and use them to buy skill ranks (similar to Bloodlines)...

All skills start at 1 and then each next level costs more skill points: 5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45, which brings the total costs to 5-15-30-50-75-105-140-180-225.

If I'm reading into this correctly, won't that encourage multiclass/jack-of-all-trades type characters more than R3?  (At least in early game?) Not saying that's bad, just trying to understand the new mechanics - I actually think that could be very positive if true.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Gauntt on May 27, 2013, 10:54:07 pm
I think it will encourage people to spend points on more varied skills. To get to lvl 10 in anything you are going to have to be disciplined and save those point up not spending them on anything else. There is going to be a lot of temptation when you fail a lockpick check or something to add points to it.

But that is what it takes to be a grand master. Ignore other areas focus on the one thing. I think this will be a really good improvement.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 28, 2013, 12:53:35 am
I'm positive it will encourage more versatile characters and I like it.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on May 28, 2013, 01:47:11 am
So, what is lacking is some more options for CS, Trading, Traps, Disguise, Lore.

An idea for Sneaking 1:
- Your skillfulness proves that 'elephant in a china store' is not merely a metaphor.

Btw, how will armor affect sneaking? Like, decreasing it by 1-2-3 points?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: toniwa on May 28, 2013, 01:56:02 am
All those efforts are fun to read, but ultimately they are quite useless to the player. To make it really mean something I suggest to relate the skill level of the character to the skill level of some npc from all the locations. For example (I dont know the true skills of those nps - just a speculation)
Lore:
1 - your knowledge is on the level of the local peasants
2 - you are as knowledgable as the Teron's prospectors
3 - Daratan preators could learn from you
4 - you could exchange a few stories with the storyteller from the local tavern
5 - you surpassed Master Feng's knowledge of the old
6 - even Cassius would feel ashamed by your deep understanding of some mantras
7 - you humble Sohrab with your skills
8 - some guy of 8 skill level from Maadoran
9 - other guy of 9 skill level from Ganeezar
10 - legendary Magus Ibn ...



Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on May 28, 2013, 02:01:26 am
That's true. It especially concerns Crafting and Alchemy, their descriptions should be informative. E.g. @ lvl 6 you can work with steel or enhance potions with a catalyst.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: ERYFKRAD on May 28, 2013, 09:54:44 am
In which case, we're all sort of nailed until we know how much difference each level of a skill makes.

P. S. Vahhabyte, aren't trading, lore and disguise covered yet?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on May 28, 2013, 10:37:45 am
That's true. It especially concerns Crafting and Alchemy, their descriptions should be informative. E.g. @ lvl 6 you can work with steel or enhance potions with a catalyst.

There is more information that just this description, especially for weapons and more technical skills.

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on May 28, 2013, 12:02:05 pm
That's pretty cool.

Has anyone been keeping track which skills still need doing?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on May 28, 2013, 01:29:30 pm
An excellent full description, Oscar  :salute:

As for ones I listed, we could just generate some extra options for Vince to choose from.

PS: Crafting 1 or 2
- You can differ the hammer from the anvil, but your fingers are still in danger.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: hilf on May 31, 2013, 07:55:23 am
Crafting 1:
You realize that some items were actually made by men, not Mother Earth.

Sneaking 9:
Night cover is for beginners.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Pastel on June 01, 2013, 12:19:18 pm
10.   You’re wiser than men who think that they know everything, for you realize that you know nothing.
:lol:


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on June 01, 2013, 04:16:22 pm
STEALING

1. You can pick the pockets of any man without him noticing, but only if he is dead.
2. You might be able to cut the purse of a sleeping man, but it's more likely that you would wake him up instead.
3. Your style of thievery involves a lot of running away from guards.
4. You've realized that stealing people's stuff is much easier when they are somehow distracted.
5. All the hard work has finally paid off: you're no longer a bad thief. Keep it up and you might actually become a good one!
6. When you buy someone a drink, they'd better check to make sure you're not paying it with their money.
7. You've become adept at using the slightest distraction to deprive a mark of their valuables.
8. Rare is the thief whose fingers are as deft as yours.
9. It's as if other people's possessions magically appear in your hands.
10. If it exists, you can steal it. If it doesn't exist, you might be able to steal it anyway.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: UniversalWolf on June 12, 2013, 05:10:32 pm
LORE

01 - The Here and Now is all you know and all you need.
02 - You can barely remember your own family tree.
03 - One time you heard a story about some guy who lived in a castle or something.
04 - You've heard legends about the old Empire and it's wars, but you never paid much attention.
05 - You can recite a few common verses about the past.
06 - Whenever you get the chance you hearken to tales of history and its deeds.
07 - The study of bygone days is more than just a casual interest for you.
08 - You've invested significant time in the perusal of rare scrolls and tablets.
09 - Not only are you well-versed in the world and it's history, you've visited several famous sites and translated a few forgotten inscriptions.
10 - Few are the peers with whom you can discuss, on equal footing, your own complex theories and treatises.

Lore was hard to tackle.  Someone with a better grasp of the game's literature could probably do a better job.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on June 13, 2013, 01:51:28 am
Lore also includes the knowledge of ancient and foreign languages, as well as some religious rituals and myths.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: UniversalWolf on June 18, 2013, 05:57:56 pm
Lore also includes the knowledge of ancient and foreign languages, as well as some religious rituals and myths.
Feel free to use, alter, or discard as you please.   :P


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vahha on June 19, 2013, 04:20:50 am
e.g.
6. Should you ever have kids you'd be entertaining them with epic sagas for many years, never telling one story twice.

7. You've traveled East and West, South and North - by feet and via book pages. You know a lot.

8. Your knowledge of languages and traditions would let you feel home anywhere... or at least save you from being killed straight away.

9. In the days of Empire you would be a high priest, an enlightener, an ebmassador at the Emperor's court. But now - a mere explorer of the past glory.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Juhnimus on June 19, 2013, 07:19:28 pm
10.   You’re wiser than men who think that they know everything, for you realize that you know nothing.
:lol:

Thats a quote from Socrates "I know one thing: that I know nothing".


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Gareth on June 20, 2013, 07:28:05 am
 :approve:

Yeah, so what skills still need work?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on June 20, 2013, 10:18:35 am
Would love to see your take on any skills you feel strongly about.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Helz on June 21, 2013, 07:16:45 pm
Critical Strikes:
1. You flail your weapon in the general direction of your enemies.  
2. Keeping your eyes open while you attack seems to help.
3. Predominantly concerned with making contact, you target whatever your opponent gives you.
4. You've learned it’s more effective to stab their squishy parts.  Accordingly, you're more careful to protect your own squishy parts.
5. Your victims would be better off if they refashioned their robes and light armor into bandages and tourniquets.
6. Recognizing that it's safer to kill the defenseless, you plan preemptive strikes while inquiring about the weather.
7. It is too hard to work your blade through metal and leather; you scrutinize your opponents' armor for weaknesses.    
8. Through extensive experimentation, you have acquired a functional understanding of anatomy. Every attack you make is designed to cut tendons, sever arteries, or puncture organs.    
9. Even the most exceptional armor has flaws that you perceive and can exploit, given the opportunity.  
10. Killing appears to be effortless for you.  Your blade is drawn to the vitals of your victims.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: SnallTrippin on June 23, 2013, 11:17:31 pm
Personally I can't stand that "come get some" for 10 swords; it just jumped out at me and my brain said - "No, no, please."

Swords 10 - "Your sword is a perfect extension of your body and your will that you control with vorpal precision."   "Someone has to be the best; you're it...until the next champion looks down at your cooling corpse."   Something something not "Come get some!" i beg you. 
                   


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Goral on June 24, 2013, 10:54:00 am
@Helz
Superb. I would love to see your description of CS in AoD.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Helz on June 24, 2013, 12:44:35 pm
@Helz
Superb. I would love to see your description of CS in AoD.

Hey, thanks for that!  The possibility to write something and have it appear in a game was too good to pass up.  And even if they don't use it, oh well.  It was fun. 


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Oscar on June 24, 2013, 01:37:32 pm
They are really cool :)


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on June 24, 2013, 06:23:38 pm
Critical Strikes:
1. You flail your weapon in the general direction of your enemies.  
2. Keeping your eyes open while you attack seems to help.
3. Predominantly concerned with making contact, you target whatever your opponent gives you.
4. You've learned it’s more effective to stab their squishy parts.  Accordingly, you're more careful to protect your own squishy parts.
5. Your victims would be better off if they refashioned their robes and light armor into bandages and tourniquets.
6. Recognizing that it's safer to kill the defenseless, you plan preemptive strikes while inquiring about the weather.
7. It is too hard to work your blade through metal and leather; you scrutinize your opponents' armor for weaknesses.    
8. Through extensive experimentation, you have acquired a functional understanding of anatomy. Every attack you make is designed to cut tendons, sever arteries, or puncture organs.    
9. Even the most exceptional armor has flaws that you perceive and can exploit, given the opportunity.  
10. Killing appears to be effortless for you.  Your blade is drawn to the vitals of your victims.

Moar!


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Helz on June 26, 2013, 07:33:11 pm
AXES
1. You’re not sure which hand goes on top if you’re right-handed.      
2. Your uncoordinated swipes throw you wildly off balance, occasionally spinning you to the ground.
3. Countless hours spent felling trees have helped to develop a fluid swing.  
4. Your straightforward attacks are savage, but leave you wide open for a gutting.
5. No amount of wood and leather will shield a man from your axe for long.
6. Many swordsmen disparage the axe for being a crude weapon, but most aren't crazy enough to do so when you're nearby.
7. Short, vicious chops cleave skulls and keep professional killers on their heels.  
8. You welcome heavily armored prey.  Few are quick enough to dodge, and the dead weight they carry offers scant protection from your axe blade.
9. Your axehead arcs through the air in impenetrable figure eights, freezing most opponents where they stand.
10. The carnage you create with an axe is appalling.  Blood spurts when shocked foes strike out at you with limbs they no longer possess.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Dragatus on June 27, 2013, 06:38:14 am
:salute:


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on June 27, 2013, 07:04:30 am
My goodness! This man was born to write awesome skill descriptions.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Helz on June 27, 2013, 12:29:54 pm
My goodness! This man was born to write awesome skill descriptions.


Oh sweet validation.  I'm off to Nepal to build a monastery on a mountain top.  I'll meditate on more ways that I can write "You kill good."  My pregnant wife might be upset at first, but some day when our future child pulls out a dusty copy of AoD and starts to play, she'll understand.  :D



Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on June 27, 2013, 01:00:47 pm
 :salute:


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Gareth on August 16, 2013, 09:35:15 am
Took a stab. Some lines are better than others. I worry that maybe they're too 'jokey'.


Trading :

1 - You got a good deal on those magic beans. Really!
2 - You're beginning to suspect that certain merchants may be exaggerating the value of their wares.
3 - If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
4 - Buy low, sell high. That's the trick.
5 - You're a real merchant now. You've got the abacus and everything.
6 - You've learned the trick of turning one gold piece into two. A subtle and powerful magic.
7 - You've learned that people aren't really buying the goods, they're buying how the goods make them feel.
8 - People check that their coin pouches are still attached to their belts when you smile.
9 - They say that everything you touch turns to gold.
10 - Money is the lifeblood of the world. And you drink deeply.


Streetwise

1 - You have absolute faith in the goodness of your fellow man.
2 - You're the proud owner of a new bridge.
3 - You're sure they'll pay you back as soon as they're able to.
4 - You're beginning to suspect that some folk are being less than honest with you.
5 - Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...well, the point is, you can't fool me, right.
6 - You've learned to avoid following attractive women into dark alleyways.
7 - The other leg has bells on it.
8 - You know what else smiles that much? A shark.
9 - No one who knows you will gamble with you anymore.
10 - People whisper that you must be using magic, you're so good at seeing through lies.


Alchemy

1 - You can tell salt by the taste alone.
2 - When the mixture starts smoking, that's bad. Lesson learned.
3 - Your allies fear your concoctions almost as much as your enemies
4 - Should your tongue be that colour?
5 - You can't remember the last time you had eyebrows.
6 - The smell of sulphur's never coming out.
7 - Healing potions make great hangover cures, you've discovered.
8 - You've got a potion for any situation.
9 - Matter is your play thing, you bend it to your will.
10 - Rumor has it that you've distilled the essence of eternal life in one of your vials.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Gasiass on August 23, 2013, 05:49:23 pm
The best way to evaluate skill capability in an RPG is by it's occurrence in the game.  For example, for lock picking, the circumstances, and conditions of the mechanism, and orientation show how much skill is required to succeed in them.  The larger point system allowed more determination in how much of your effort you applied in each area.  The non-combat skills could be compared to the effect of the combat skills, which can be easily shown in their effectiveness, with the explicit system, and comparison to the skills of the other combatants.  Even if the proportion of dedication applied to the combat skills isn't the same as that applied to the non-combat skills, the proportion of all the non-combat skills could be the same to the combat skills.  The former system allowed for more unique characters, and more personalization.  It's better to determine skill capacity by in game use, than to recount from a pre-made scheme description.


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: JoelMB12 on August 30, 2013, 04:37:26 pm
Are you going to switch to this easier one to ten system then point?


Title: Re: Need some lines - any help?
Post by: Vince on August 30, 2013, 04:40:51 pm
Switched already (it's in R4 - what we're currently testing).