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RPG => Combat Demo Discussions => Topic started by: Nick on December 28, 2009, 09:39:10 am



Title: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on December 28, 2009, 09:39:10 am
Here is a list of issues I've fixed so far (and didn't forget to write down):

Since Release 2:
  • Increased the range of 2-handed spear, so noone can get close without triggering interrupt attack.
  • Fixed the console log description text  saying that the character has dodged while knocked down.
  • Getting attacked by ranged opponent in diagonally adjacent square resulted in player spinning around and turning back on attacker.
  • Fixed: "Have a skill maxed at 300, for example, swords. Equip a sword that give a bonus, like a gladius, and it will allow you to "add" points to the skill (but in reality those points are wasted, since the skill stays at 300). It shouldn't allow you to do that."
  • Fixed a crash caused by starting a dialogue again (after the final conversation), then trying to load a game.
  • Fast and precise shots were available for crossbows with the "help" of shortcuts.
  • Attacks of opportunity and spear interrupts don't work through the obstacles anymore.
  • Made town music looping.
  • Fixed displaced GUI screen switching buttons (alchemy, character, etc) in the inventory screen.
  • Fixed a nasty TGE's bug when reloading the game could crash if you've interrupted it when particle emitters were working.
  • Added WASD as alternative camera controls.
  • Fixed accumulating criticals when a projectile gets retargeted.
  • Fixed: the line of fire is shown as clear when you aim, but when you fire the projectile hits a wrong target.
  • Stray arrows do not fly through the building walls anymore.
  • Fixed a crash at saving/loading screen when some savegame has too long filename (over 27 characters). Buffer overrrun  :-[ . Give your saves shorter names if you're using R2.
  • You could escape dialogue anytime using 'I' or 'C' keys.
  • Changed the "To Hit Chance" formula.
  • Changed axes' split shields chance.
  • Changed throwing weapons and daggers' passive trait from "ignore armour" (DR set to 0) to "hit a weak spot" (DR is cut in half).
  • Aimed attacks' and passive weapon effects' descriptions in textbox do not start with "Critical Strike!" anymore.
  • Added an effect for critical strike + aimed torso attack combo: ignore armour completely (DR set to 0)
  • Minimum melee attack speed is now 2AP.
  • Modified ammo types effects: removed damage modifiers, added CS modifiers, tweaked DR modifiers.
  • Nets: added penalty to defence, doubled movement cost, changed THC formula.
  • Lowered Dodge counter-attack chance.
  • Fixed a bug which allowed you to counter-attack the character, who is normally out of your weapon range.
  • Fixed a mistake, when missing a knocked down character with your ranged weapon was reported as "dodge".
  • Now you can block/dodge only 4 attacks per turn without penalties; each subsequent attack in the same turn will be progressively harder (extra 5% bonus to THC) to block/dodge.
  • Fast/power attacks influence a chance to score a passive weapon effect.
  • Left-clicking the weapon slot shows a "chance to score a passive weapon effect" info in the textbox.
  • Taught AI to use nets.
  • Added cool items that do nothing mechanics-wise, but are still cool 8)
  • Tweaked spearman AI a bit.
  • Added more precise collision mesh to character bodies. One of results is that you don't have to point at character's legs to loot his body any more.
  • Added quicksave (F5) and quickload (F9) functions.
  • Gave some weapons the ability to split shields.
  • Counter-attacks are less common with two-handed weapons.
  • Some weapons increase their passive effect chance.
  • Shields no longer give increased block, but they reduce the chance of splitting.
  • Made some minor changes to weapon damage.
  • Because of the numerous changes to item properties and game mechanics, savegames from R1 and R2 won't work anymore. The game won't let you load them.
  • Made combat music looping.
  • Fixed ranged fighters' positioning problem.
  • Moved configuration file from game's subfolder to My Documents\My Games\Age of Decadence, to avoid problems with filesystem permissions on Vista/Win7.


Since Release 1:
  • Fixed: "Closed off buildings when the game is loaded."
  • Fixed: "Can move through NPCs."
  • Combat sounds do not fade so much with distance.
  • Disabled streaming music, it's all preloaded now.
  • Moved screenshots and console.log to My Documents\My Games\Age of Decadence, so they can be created even if you don't run admin account.
  • Now you can't save a game when your character is dead.
  • Death screen appearing after you die and quickly load a game: no more.
  • Fixed: "Arena master crash". Which meant potential crash on any dialogue initiation.
  • Fixed: "You can extend your spear interrupt range by selecting a whirlwind attack before ending your turn. I believe it's an exploit."
  • Equipping something while moving made character continue his path as a statue (wrong animation was played).
  • Fixed: clicking dialogue answer could lead to a wrong outcome (problem with hidden answers, when your character didn't pass skill/stat/script check.
  • Fixed error loading a saved game, if you saved it while your character was moving (to the last tile of his/her path?)
  • Now crossbows are not getting unloaded when dropped into inventory.
  • Found a solution for ATI videocard owners (X-series) who experienced visual artefacts.
  • Fixed "Characters attack and hurt themselves or wrong targets" bug.
  • Fixed a bug with loading a save game, when user gets a normal loading screen at first, but when the SVGA progress bar reaches the end, the game "hangs", though gameworld sounds are heard.
  • Fixed: "Combat goes into an endless loop after a character disengages from an opponent."
  • Throwing axes are not floating in the air any more, while your character walks.
  • Fixed: "The bow multishot does not deal criticals."
  • You could totally avoid combat in this combat demo :) (bug with arena exits)
  • Spaces between some dialogue asnwers were too large.
  • Fixed a bug when you could initiate a conversation in movement and still keep walking somewhere.
  • Added "1", "2", "3" keys as alternative shortcuts to attack modes (fast, normal, power).
  • Fixed: "Characters attack through the walls".


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Fosse on December 28, 2009, 11:31:13 am
 :salute:


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Ackermanus on December 28, 2009, 11:51:56 am
Here is a list of major issues I've fixed so far (and didn't forget to write down):

  • Fixed: "Closed off buildings when the game is loaded."
  • Fixed: "Can move through NPCs."
  • Combat sounds do not fade so much with distance.
  • Disabled streaming music, it's all preloaded now.
  • Moved screenshots and console.log to My Documents\My Games\Age of Decadence, so they can be created even if you don't run admin account.
  • Now you can't save a game when your character is dead.
  • Death screen appearing after you die and quickly load a game: no more.
  • Fixed: "Arena master crash". Which meant potential crash on any dialogue initiation.
  • Fixed: "You can extend your spear interrupt range by selecting a whirlwind attack before ending your turn. I believe it's an exploit."
  • Equipping something while moving made character continue his path as a statue (wrong animation was played).
  • Fixed: clicking dialogue answer could lead to a wrong outcome (problem with hidden answers, when your character didn't pass skill/stat/script check.
  • Fixed error loading a saved game, if you saved it while your character was moving (to the last tile of his/her path?)
  • Now crossbows are not getting unloaded when dropped into inventory.
  • Found a solution for ATI videocard owners (X-series) who experienced visual artefacts.
  • Fixed "Characters attack and hurt themselves or wrong targets" bug.

 Nice job, congratulations. By the way, the arena master fix fixed my game crashing at the imperial guards dialog.
 One question: By fixing the whirlwind exploit, did you also fix the counter attack exploit? (Same trick: Have whirlwind attack selected when you end your turn, and with a one-handed weapon you can counter attack diagonaly).


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on December 28, 2009, 11:58:15 am
Yes, both interrupt attack and opportunity attack now always use the range of "normal attack" mode.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on December 28, 2009, 03:57:24 pm
Great work, Nick :salute:


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: 陈瑞思 on December 28, 2009, 06:49:16 pm
It would be super cool to know where to go to get these fixes.  Like this arena master fix I hear about and even located once via the RPG Codex, but was unable to download because it's on rapidshare and I'm not a premium member.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Vince on December 28, 2009, 06:50:31 pm
It's coming soon. Needs to be tested first.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on December 28, 2009, 06:52:27 pm
If you go to "download links" topic in this subforum, you'll find more links to that fix. The rest will go public in 24 hours with a new build, if everything is fine.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: deuxhero on December 30, 2009, 05:12:14 pm
can 4 5 6 and 7 target hands, torso, legs and head? (not in that order)


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: bhlaab on December 30, 2009, 06:46:23 pm
i like that the installer now puts a shortcut in the start menu, the last one didn't.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Jaime Lannister on December 30, 2009, 09:43:27 pm
Age of Decadence: Combat Demo: Enhanced Edition: The Best Reaches Perfection


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on December 30, 2009, 09:45:53 pm
Age of Decadence: Combat Demo: Enhanced Edition: The Best Reaches Perfection

And then comes Age of Decadence: Combat Demo: Enhanced Edition: Ultimate Developers Cut: Perfection Reaches Divinity :lol:


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nehan on December 31, 2009, 06:05:08 am
you sure you weren't working on the witcher? :smug:


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Jim_Cojones on December 31, 2009, 09:13:15 am
Star Wars: Age of Decadence: Combat Demo: Enhanced Edition: Ultimate Developers Cut: Perfection Reaches Divinity

Fixed. If you want to use many colons, you can't avoid having Star Wars in title.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: hilf on January 07, 2010, 09:28:17 am
Quote
Increased the range of 2-handed spear, so noone can get close without triggering interrupt attack.
Ahh, at last :D
So spear range is now like this
-***-
**-**
*-@-*
**-**
-***-
?


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on January 07, 2010, 11:03:32 am
-***-
**-**
*-@-*
**-**
-***-

Yes =)


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: galsiah on January 07, 2010, 03:37:42 pm
Fixed: "Have a skill maxed at 300, for example, swords. Equip a sword that give a bonus, like a gladius, and it will allow you to "add" points to the skill (but in reality those points are wasted, since the skill stays at 300). It shouldn't allow you to do that."
What is the intended behaviour here? I'd have thought that it makes sense to have the bonus remain meaningful - i.e. effectively give an over-300 skill value. Just because you have the natural skill value capped at 300, doesn't mean it makes sense to cap the adjusted skill value at 300 too - in fact I'd say just the opposite. If you get +10 for a gladius, a 300-skill character ought to have an effective skill of 310; if you add +10%, he should have an effective skill of 330. Limiting everything to 300 both fails to make sense, and is probably less interesting - since there's no longer the usual balancing trade-off in using a lighter weapon.

Of course it's right to fix a bug where the character sheet is misinforming the player. I just think the character sheet had it right in this case - the game system ought to be changed so that adjusted skill values can be over 300. I can't see any downside to doing this.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: FireStomp on January 07, 2010, 03:43:46 pm
Fixed: "Have a skill maxed at 300, for example, swords. Equip a sword that give a bonus, like a gladius, and it will allow you to "add" points to the skill (but in reality those points are wasted, since the skill stays at 300). It shouldn't allow you to do that."
What is the intended behaviour here? I'd have thought that it makes sense to have the bonus remain meaningful - i.e. effectively give an over-300 skill value. Just because you have the natural skill value capped at 300, doesn't mean it makes sense to cap the adjusted skill value at 300 too - in fact I'd say just the opposite. If you get +10 for a gladius, a 300-skill character ought to have an effective skill of 310; if you add +10%, he should have an effective skill of 330. Limiting everything to 300 both fails to make sense, and is probably less interesting - since there's no longer the usual balancing trade-off in using a lighter weapon.

Of course it's right to fix a bug where the character sheet is misinforming the player. I just think the character sheet had it right in this case - the game system ought to be changed so that adjusted skill values can be over 300. I can't see any downside to doing this.

I'm fairly certain that he was saying that they only fixed the bug allowing players to add points to an over-capped skill, not that they removed the ability for bonuses to push you up to 305 or 310 or whatever. The "stays at 300" part meant skill pre-equipment bonus, not post-bonus.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on January 07, 2010, 03:52:43 pm
The skill was always capped at 300, with bonuses or not. The problem was that if you had 300 natural + some bonus, you could keep pumping SPs into it, but it didn't give any effect.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: galsiah on January 07, 2010, 04:22:46 pm
Ok. So (do excuse me if I'm being slow), does that mean that a 300-skill character doesn't get an advantage from using a +10 skill weapon? This bug aside, isn't that silly?


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on January 07, 2010, 04:27:07 pm
Discussable. Talk to Vince about that.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on January 07, 2010, 05:41:13 pm
Ok. So (do excuse me if I'm being slow), does that mean that a 300-skill character doesn't get an advantage from using a +10 skill weapon? This bug aside, isn't that silly?

He does get the advantage if there's also a penalty to attack. I'm not to keen on stats/attributes going over the max, though. You can't have more than 10 in attribute, and you can't get over 300 in a stat. It's the limit of the humanly possible. But let me hear your arguments.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: galsiah on January 07, 2010, 07:05:29 pm
The argument is simply that he isn't going over 300 in the stat: using a gladius doesn't mean he's any more skilled with a sword, only that he gets a +10 in all checks of that skill. That might be functionally equivalent, but it has a clearly different meaning. This isn't a magical gladius that's giving him supernatural abilities - it's simply a sword that's easier to use, so he gets better results in situations where the skill gets used.

Really it doesn't make a great deal of sense to put the weapon bonus on the character sheet in the first place: a character with 100 sword skill using a gladius, still has 100 sword skill. The reaction against having the skill go over 300, comes out of treating the character-sheet value as the character's natural ability. If that's the case, it shouldn't be adjusted according to the weapon he carries. If the character sheet isn't representing natural ability, but rather how-effective-this-character-is-at-sword-skill-checks, then there's no reason not to have it go over 300: a character using an easier sword should have an advantage when he has 300 skill, just as he does against an inferior opponent; an over-300-skill in this case isn't saying anything about the character's natural ability - simply that he's got 300 skill, and an easy-to-use sword.


The same kind of argument also applies to the stat case, but there it's less clear, since you can come up with some magicy/techy reason why some weird armour can't increase very high abilities to super-human levels. With a gladius, there's no hope of a convincing argument to that effect. A gladius doesn't increase sword skill, it just makes the sword skill a character has go further. Having it arbitrarily stop doing this at skill 300 is just nonsense.

Naturally it's not a huge issue either way, but I don't see any argument for the way things are now. A character shouldn't get over 300 in a stat - fine: he's not; he's getting an contextual bonus on a stat roll, just as he might for reduced-range / reduced-opponent-defence / opponent-being-knocked-out / opponent-being-bolaed etc. etc.. Holding a gladius has nothing to do with his natural sword skill.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: 34s Cell on January 07, 2010, 07:12:35 pm
The way I see it, the bonus represents the ease at which a rookie can wield the weapon, thus making no difference when used by a master.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: galsiah on January 07, 2010, 07:52:58 pm
It makes:
  • 10 points of difference at skill 30.
  • 10 points of difference at skill 290.
  • 0 points of difference at skill 300.
There's just no way you can rationalize that without appealing to magic.

Of course there's no need to rationalize it if there's some good gameplay-based argument for capping everything at 300, regardless of whether it makes sense. I don't see such an argument. In fact, I think it makes things worse gameplay-wise: if the +10 was helpful to balance through 100, 200 and 250 skill, it's almost certainly helpful to balance at 300 skill. Eliminating the +10 for a weapon once skill hits 300 is only likely to throw balance off, and make choices less interesting.

[[of course it should be noted here that the recent THC changes have made a flat point bonus to skill, progressively less important for increasing skill values; perhaps that's good, perhaps not; but whether a gladius provides +10, +10%, or something different, having its effect magically disappear at 290-->300, is nonsense - and probably unhelpful to gameplay, if anything]]


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Vince on January 07, 2010, 09:26:08 pm
+10 for gladius means simply that the sword is easier to wield than larger swords. One can argue that at some a swordsman reaches the level of mastery where he can wield all swords equally easy and with great precision, no longer getting any benefits from wielding a smaller weapon.



Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: galsiah on January 07, 2010, 11:01:08 pm
Sure, but that argument still looks pretty silly when the impact doesn't reduce at all from 30 to 290, then suddenly disappears. Again, I find the argument incongruous, but I also don't see any gameplay-based reason to prefer limiting adjusted-skill to 300. The +10 makes weapon choice more interesting; removing it makes things a bit less interesting. The current situation also creates an odd incentive for a gladius-user not to bother mastering the skill - since he's already effectively mastered it by using a gladius.

The only advantage I can see to keeping things as they are is the idea that a 300 limit is somehow neater, but I'd disagree with that too: the weirdness of disappearing-gladius-bonus just draws attention to an odd situation, and creates counter-intuitive incentives - e.g. for a gladius-user to stop increasing skill at 290. To me, this makes achieving the 300 limit less special, since reaching the limit doesn't mean you've mastered the skill - it means you've either mastered it, or you've almost mastered it, picked up a gladius, and realized you had nothing more to learn (until you put the gladius down).

"Higher-skill-improves-performance-with-the-skill" is a very simple and intuitive rule for players to understand and apply. Needlessly screwing with it at the almost-300-skill end of things seems silly. There's nothing wrong with limiting natural skill to 300 - the limits-of-human-possibility reasoning works well there, and makes perfect sense. Arbitrarily limiting the combination of the context, and the skill, makes no sense.
Removing the bonus for a gladius at 300 is as silly as removing the bonus for a fast attack (which I hope doesn't happen??).

Again, I don't see any reason to list weapon-based skill adjustments on the character sheet. It'd be fine just to have unadjusted skill listed, and for the player to know that using certain weapons gives him bonuses on skill checks with the related skill. It's not as though the skill impact on THC is straight-forward anymore, so knowing the adjusted skill value for a given check isn't particularly relevant.
To me it'd make sense if the weapon-bonus didn't count towards passive traits anyway (though that's arguable, of course). That's the only way I can see that listing the adjusted value even helps at the moment.


[I remain aware that this has vanishingly little significance either way - I just don't see the upside]


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: 34s Cell on January 08, 2010, 12:09:18 am
Try thinking of it as a percentage bonus that steadily decreases as you upgrade the skill: at 30 it's 25% and 290 its a 3%, so it doesn't "suddenly disappear" but gradually becomes less useful.

By the way, is it possible to increase your skill to 300 when it's under a penalty, as to remove said penalty, like a master at dodging in heavy armour?


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on January 08, 2010, 12:24:38 am
By the way, is it possible to increase your skill to 300 when it's under a penalty, as to remove said penalty, like a master at dodging in heavy armour?

No, the base cannot be increased beyond 300. If you want no penalty, use an armor that doesn't hamper your movement.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: erbgor on January 08, 2010, 12:27:29 am
I'm with Galsiah here, the bonus should be applied at max skill, too. If the gladius is a bit easier to use, this shoud apply for a master as well. Makes equipment choice more interesting.

I'm with it either way, though, the only way I don't like is not showing the bonus in the character screen (once it goes past max value), but still applying it in the to hit calculations. Some games have this.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: hilf on January 08, 2010, 05:01:12 am
I fully agree with galsiah. I can`t add much more to what he said so I`ll just quote stuff I especially agree with:
Quote from: galsiah
In fact, I think it makes things worse gameplay-wise: if the +10 was helpful to balance through 100, 200 and 250 skill, it's almost certainly helpful to balance at 300 skill. Eliminating the +10 for a weapon once skill hits 300 is only likely to throw balance off, and make choices less interesting.
Quote
It makes:
10 points of difference at skill 30.
10 points of difference at skill 290.
0 points of difference at skill 300.
There's just no way you can rationalize that without appealing to magic.

Quote from: 34s Cell
Try thinking of it as a percentage bonus that steadily decreases as you upgrade the skill: at 30 it's 25% and 290 its a 3%, so it doesn't "suddenly disappear" but gradually becomes less useful.
But at slvl 300 it should also be 3% but is 0%.

With new CTH formula skill values over 300 shouldn`t break balance, because the higher skill lvl is, the lesser benfits are.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: catmorbid on January 08, 2010, 05:25:06 am
I agree with galsiah on this, and hilf also said the why. The skill level only sets the limits of the character's mastery, the limit to human ability. Exactly as abilities are maxed at 10. In my opinion, this should never rule out the possibility of external modifiers, that somehow break these rules of nature. This is one thing I hated about fallout: power armor didn't affect your strength in anyway, if you already had 10 str, while I think it should have.

It's the same thing here, with the skills and different skill modifiers from equipment. I don't see why the gladius would suddenly become less accurate when you reach the ultimate level of mastery. It doesn't really make much sense. Since there are not magic items or spells or whatever that could buff the character to great extent, I don't really see why the ability/skill cap should be the absolute cap, if there would be something to temporarily modify them over the maximum.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: ninjelephant on January 08, 2010, 10:07:29 am
+1 for Galsiah.
If you have a swordsman with 200 skill and give him a rusty, old, cracked gladius or a brand new, out of a shop gladius he will be more deadly with the later one.
And this is like you say that THAT wouldn't make a difference for a master swordsman with 300 skill.
(well kinda, not an exact comparison but still..)


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on January 08, 2010, 10:10:09 am
What's really funny is that not many people will reach 300 in a weapon skill in the game (looking at the builds in the demo, they don't even reach it there), and when they do, 10 points more or less isn't going to make any difference at all.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: ninjelephant on January 08, 2010, 10:12:47 am
What's really funny is that not many people will reach 300 in a weapon skill in the game (looking at the builds in the demo, they don't even reach it there), and when they do, 10 points more or less isn't going to make any difference at all.

Don't take away our chance to complain  :D


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: galsiah on January 08, 2010, 11:07:22 am
What's really funny is that not many people will reach 300 in a weapon skill in the game (looking at the builds in the demo, they don't even reach it there), and when they do, 10 points more or less isn't going to make any difference at all.
Sure, it's really a tiny issue - I don't think I've got an attack skill close to 300 while I've been playing (or I'd have been grumbling earlier :)). I just think the current setup is on the wrong side of the tiny issue. Small gameplay downside; small that's-nonsense downside; upside??

It also might be a significant annoyance to any player who's crafted/acquired a good gladius, spent ages gaining skill points and pumping them into sword, only to get a moderate-and-unexpected "Fuck you" at the end when his gladius no longer provides any help. It's just needless.


I'd be inclined to adjust the weapon bonus away from a fixed +10 / +5 anyway. As has been pointed out above, it becomes less and less significant over time with the new THC calculation. I doubt that's a good thing. I'd rather that weapons had e.g. +5% +10%.

Alternatively, if you really do have some fetishistic attachment to 300 as overall maximum, just convert the weapon bonuses to penalties: Gladius -0%, Handar -5%, Scimitar -10% etc.. That way everyone is happy (until they realize the same thing is going on with block).


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: GarfunkeL on January 08, 2010, 11:18:06 am
As long as it still negates helmet/shield malus at 300, I'm happy.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on January 08, 2010, 11:22:11 am
As long as it still negates helmet/shield malus at 300, I'm happy.

It does.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Ellorien on January 08, 2010, 12:07:52 pm
OK. The original "edition" would not even start on my computer so I just deleted it. Finally, I got some time and downloaded the Enhanced Edition today and it worked. Yay! But my happiness was short-lived. Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight? I can increase other skills (Dodge etc) but when I click on + to increase, say, Spear, my available sp disappear with each click but nothing changes in the left column. Moreover, my agile light-armored char (12 AP) can use hasta (3 AP so he gets 3 normal attacks per round) only.  With a heftier spear (6 AP) in hand he just stands around and no amount of clicking makes him attack his opponent even once. And no, the game does not say, "you don't have enough AP", in case you assume I am a total TB combat noob. It does not say anything at all. These are the game breaking bugs, gentlemen.

I also dislike the RB click for movement - RB should be reserved for something else, e.g. description of items, status, "cancel command" etc. As is, it is unintuitive and frustrating. I lost lots of turns because of this.





Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on January 08, 2010, 12:26:19 pm
Quote
These are the game breaking bugs, gentlemen.

Sorry, noone else experiences any game breaking bugs like that, so it must be you doing something wrong.

Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight? I can increase other skills (Dodge etc) but when I click on + to increase, say, Spear, my available sp disappear with each click but nothing changes in the left column.

Gets replaced by a synergy from another weapon skill?

Quote
Moreover, my agile light-armored char (12 AP) can use hasta (3 AP so he gets 3 normal attacks per round) only.  With a heftier spear (6 AP) in hand he just stands around and no amount of clicking makes him attack his opponent even once. And no, the game does not say, "you don't have enough AP", in case you assume I am a total TB combat noob. It does not say anything at all.

Not in range? Are there any % value near the cursor?

Quote
I also dislike the RB click for movement - RB should be reserved for something else, e.g. description of items, status, "cancel command" etc. As is, it is unintuitive and frustrating. I lost lots of turns because of this.

I don't think so, but that's just a personal preference.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: erbgor on January 08, 2010, 12:27:20 pm
Ellorien, 2-handed spears don't work up close, you need to step back a square.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on January 08, 2010, 12:30:09 pm
Well, Nick beat me to it.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: hilf on January 08, 2010, 12:34:02 pm
Quote
Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight?
Are You absolutely sure You can`t increase Your highest weapon skill too? If yes, there is something wrong.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Wrath of Dagon on January 08, 2010, 12:38:43 pm
OK. The original "edition" would not even start on my computer so I just deleted it. Finally, I got some time and downloaded the Enhanced Edition today and it worked. Yay! But my happiness was short-lived. Why the fuck am I unable to increase any of my weapon skills for my STR 10, DEX 10 char even after the 4th fight? I can increase other skills (Dodge etc) but when I click on + to increase, say, Spear, my available sp disappear with each click but nothing changes in the left column. Moreover, my agile light-armored char (12 AP) can use hasta (3 AP so he gets 3 normal attacks per round) only.  With a heftier spear (6 AP) in hand he just stands around and no amount of clicking makes him attack his opponent even once. And no, the game does not say, "you don't have enough AP", in case you assume I am a total TB combat noob. It does not say anything at all. These are the game breaking bugs, gentlemen.

I also dislike the RB click for movement - RB should be reserved for something else, e.g. description of items, status, "cancel command" etc. As is, it is unintuitive and frustrating. I lost lots of turns because of this.

You forgot to select spear as your weapon when you created your character, you must have sword as your weapon.

Actually that happens a lot, perhaps there needs to be a warning message if you leave the weapon selection defaulted to sword?

Edit: Did you read Vince's survival guide sticky?


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Niektory on January 08, 2010, 12:40:22 pm
Or default it to nothing so you can't continue without picking one. I've never had a problem with it though.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Ellorien on January 08, 2010, 01:07:20 pm
Quote
Gets replaced by a synergy from another weapon skill?
What? All weapons skills remain unchanged since the char creation - is that supposed to be like that?

Quote
You forgot to select spear as your weapon when you created your character, you must have sword as your weapon.

Actually that happens a lot, perhaps there needs to be a warning message if you leave the weapon selection defaulted to sword?
Shoot, that's true.

Quote
Did you read Vince's survival guide sticky?
No, I did not - I haven't visited the forums for a couple weeks and anyway, I refuse to read any manuals and combat tactics walkthroughs on principle. But why would a player even need to read any of that? Suppose I am not a forum member. The interface should be intuitive and self-explanatory without any readme. I want to have all descriptions in-game. As is, a regular gamer  who just stumbled upon this demo might have a hard time figuring out elementary commands and just quit out of frustration. Which I did.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Vince on January 08, 2010, 01:10:46 pm
Any new system should be explained first. I'm sure that you can figure out everything given enough time, but why waste it if the readme is a click away?



Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Nick on January 08, 2010, 01:27:13 pm
What? All weapons skills remain unchanged since the char creation - is that supposed to be like that?

Nope. But I've never seen or heard that happening anyway. Can you record a little video to illustrate your problem?


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Fosse on January 08, 2010, 01:51:43 pm
For the ease of use of forum members, I propose that ITS implements an "I agree with Galsiah" emoticon. 

That suggestion out of the way, I do agree with him on the issue at hand.  Like everyone else, I have nothing further to add to strengthen his point.   :salute:

Quote
I refuse to read any manuals and combat tactics walkthroughs on principle.
This is absurd.  What principle leads one to take this approach?  I'd just roll my eyes and move on, but the truth is I've seen this advanced as an "argument" that a game's mechanics or interface are subpar in the past.  Ellorien is not alone here.

Yes, a user interface should be as intuitive as possible, and there's no good reason not to fit it out with helpful tooltips.  Yes, a game should have a robust in-game help system of some kind.  And yes, a solid printed manual should absolutely be par for the course.  But no, a game should not be so self evident about every aspect of its design and gameplay that one should be considered reasonable for ignoring the instructions while complaining of its opaqueness. 


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Vince on January 08, 2010, 01:54:23 pm
For the ease of use of forum members, I propose that ITS implements an "I agree with Galsiah" emoticon. 
Seconded. Maybe Oscar can cook something.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: caster on January 08, 2010, 01:59:23 pm
Are you spending points only on chosen weapon skill or youre spending them on several ones?
You should select one weapon as primary and put all points into that weapon and either Dodge, CS, or Block.

Meaning, one weapon skill and one ability out of those three.
Dividing skill points over two skills will get you your ass handed back back to you in some interesting and sometimes humiliating ways. At first.

And maybe that "glitch" is due to something like that? Or wearing armor which negatively affects some skills. Happened to me.

For the ease of use of forum members, I propose that ITS implements an "I agree with Galsiah" emoticon. 
Seconded. Maybe Oscar can cook something.
Thirded. I can only agree with this suggestion.


Yes, a user interface should be as intuitive as possible, and there's no good reason not to fit it out with helpful tooltips.  Yes, a game should have a robust in-game help system of some kind.  And yes, a solid printed manual should absolutely be par for the course.  But no, a game should not be so self evident about every aspect of its design and gameplay that one should be considered reasonable for ignoring the instructions while complaining of its opaqueness. 
Sometimes i also enjoy discovering the "right approaches" in some games without reading the manuals or any readmes - Like Fallouts which i played for years without knowing how mechanics and numbers work besides what i could see directly through the gameplay -
But i agree with fosse to extent that you cannot reasonably expect for mechanics of a RPG to be totally self evident and understandable just by looking at the interface.

Helpful tooltips will be added anyway, i gather - and other enhancements, since this is a working beta in a way still. Improvements are ongoing!


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: hilf on January 08, 2010, 02:45:36 pm
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4384/galsiahagree.gif)
Just need transparent background.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Ellorien on January 08, 2010, 03:12:01 pm
Quote
Can you record a little video to illustrate your problem?
There is no need - I just chose the weapon which I overlooked due to the tiny font  on my high res screen. I quickly beat everyone up to Nicander using the simplest spear (barbari only on the second try though because of my accidental clicking the right mouse button) and almost killed Nicander (we both were almost dead) but he got lucky first. Oh well.

My main concern is somewhat unintuitive interface.  

Oh, and I haven't read the survival guide. I read only printed manuals and only when I need particular info.
You guys overestimate the "knowledge of mechanics" stuff.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: caster on January 08, 2010, 03:28:35 pm
So...what happened with the game breaking bug?
Skill points working?


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Oscar on January 08, 2010, 03:37:36 pm
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4384/galsiahagree.gif)
Just need transparent background.

:galsiah:


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: Ellorien on January 08, 2010, 04:02:09 pm
So...what happened with the game breaking bug?
Skill points working?

'twas no game breaking bug, I owe Nick an apology. Still, this "synergy" sp distribution is strange: if I choose to raise one skill without any prior selection of a primary weapon, why does the game not allow me to do so?

Btw, killed that Nicander fellow right away with fast attack only (with hasta). He managed to strike me only once (during interrupt).
My char's name is Dodgy Bob.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: caster on January 08, 2010, 04:06:18 pm
'twas no game breaking bug, I owe Nick an apology. Still, this "synergy" sp distribution is strange: if I choose to raise one skill without any prior selection of a primary weapon, why does the game not allow me to do so?
Why Nick? WHYYYY? :P

Btw, killed that Nicander fellow right away with fast attack only (with hasta). He managed to strike me only once (during interrupt).
My char's name is Dodgy Bob.
Yeah? have fun with the Butcher and Triari  >:D


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: erbgor on January 08, 2010, 11:18:44 pm
My main concern is somewhat unintuitive interface.  

Oh, and I haven't read the survival guide. I read only printed manuals and only when I need particular info.
You guys overestimate the "knowledge of mechanics" stuff.


I usually jump straight in without reading anything, as well, but when I can't figure out how to do something I'll look it up or ask instead of blaming the game...call it old school.


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: GhanBuriGhan on January 11, 2010, 10:47:34 am
My main concern is somewhat unintuitive interface.  

Oh, and I haven't read the survival guide. I read only printed manuals and only when I need particular info.
You guys overestimate the "knowledge of mechanics" stuff.


I usually jump straight in without reading anything, as well, but when I can't figure out how to do something I'll look it up or ask instead of blaming the game...call it old school.
Maybe its old school, but there can never be too much in the way of good interface design and ease of information access. In the end a few more tooltips, a usable in-game helpfile, etc. will save a lot of forum spamming with the 100th version of "I put skillpoints in my weapons skill but it did not increase, whaaaa!!!", and will help creat good will. Especially with a game whose mechanica are not trivial to "get" at first, at least for people who haven't touched Fallout in the last ten years or so. At least for issues that get mentioned here more than once, the effort is worthwhile imho...


Title: Re: Fixed issues
Post by: piotras on January 26, 2010, 04:20:22 pm
  • Nets: added penalty to defence, doubled movement cost, changed THC formula.

Could someone please expand on this one. I know that the formula is linked to the throwing skill (+TS/10) but I got the impression that it is more complicated?

I wonder how it is done. It sounds logical to link it to the throwing skill, but by doing so it kinda contradicts the whole stereotype of a bad-ass gladiator with a trident in one hand and a net with another... i.e. it would end up used by throwing builds together with throwing knifes etc.