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Vince
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« on: May 17, 2013, 09:17:48 AM »

We switched to 1-10 skill system in R4. Why? The 1-100 system contributed greatly to meta-gaming and general confusion, because you had no clue what skills values really meant and how they benefited your character. Do you increase your key skills by 3-4 point? Does it matter? Do you get your best skill to the nearest ten?

We tried to make each investment useful by going with checks like 34, 37, 39, etc, but somehow it created even more uncertainty. In comparison, 1-10 is a lot more straightforward. Everything else stays the same: you get the same SP for quests and use them to buy skill ranks (similar to Bloodlines). We've already had different 'SP to skill values' conversation rates for higher skills, so the change is mostly cosmetic (so don't freak out) and is about how we present you the information necessary to make decisions.

All skills start at 1 and then each next level costs more skill points: 5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45, which brings the total costs to 5-15-30-50-75-105-140-180-225.

Also, your character's 'power level' wasn't clear. What did 50 points in Swords make you? A good swordsman? Average? So, each skill level would have a corresponding label:

1 - Unskilled
2 - Novice
3 - Apprentice
4 - Skilled
5 - Proficient
6 - Journeyman
7 - Adept
8 - Expert
9 - Master
10 - Grand Master

If you don't like some titles and have better suggestions, by all means...

We also want to add some descriptions indicating your proficiency level. Since I'm busy with other things, I'd really appreciate some help to speed things up a bit. I'm not even sure which direction we should take, so your opinions are welcome. I did a few skills (first draft just to see how it looks and yes, some lines suck, as expected):

Swords:

1.   You’re fairly certain that you stab them with the pointy end.
2.   You’ve added hacking and slashing to your repertoire.
3.   You’re discovered that swinging your sword wildly will only get you so far.
4.   You’ve learned to hit targets. Most of the time. If they don’t move.
5.   You’re getting the hang of it. Keep it up and you might become a competent swordsman one day.
6.   Better than average. And still alive. Better drink to that because the ‘still alive’ part might change without notice.
7.   You’re good with a sword. A lot of men died to make this dream a reality.
8.   Few men are as good as you are.
9.   When you carry a blade, you fear neither men nor demons.
10.   Come and get some!



Lore
1.   You can write your own name.
2.   You like looking through scrolls, especially the ones with drawings.
3.   You’re learned a few things here and there.
4.   You’ve realized that knowledge is power. Your enthusiasm for learning has never been greater.
5.   You are not quite a gentleman, but you’re definitely a scholar.
6.   You’ve learned much about the past and what you’ve learned drives you to seek more.
7.   You’re a linguist, historian, forger, and repairman. In short, you’re a loremaster.
8.   You’ve learned much, from steamworks to magick obscura
9.   You know … everything.
10.   You’re wiser than men who think that they know everything, for you realize that you know nothing.


Persuasion:

1.   You're able to communicate with other primates.
2.   You’ve discovered that the primates respond better to well-chosen words.
3.   You've learned to string words together for greater oratory effect.
4.   You're learned how to convince those who want to believe you.
5.   You’ve realized that Old Man Aesop was right: persuasion IS more effective than brute force.
6.   You’ve learned how to win friends and influence people.
7.   You’ve realized that persuasion is merely a prerequisite to manipulation.
8.   You will make a great ‘used carts’ salesman.
9.   People are an open book to you and you can talk them into just about anything.
10.   Your ability to influence minds is uncanny. Keep it up and they will burn you for witchcraft.



Streetwise:

1.   You're able to communicate with other primates.
2.   You’ve discovered that the primates respond better to well-chosen words.
3.   You've learned to string words together for greater oratory effect.
4.   You're learned that it’s easy to fool someone who believes everything you say.
5.   You’ve discovered that people respond best to lies they want to hear.
6.   You’ve learned to play on people’s fears, honor, ambitions, beliefs, and other useful qualities.
7.   It’s not a lie if you believe it.
8.   Some people turn water into wine, you turn lies into truth. Arguably, yours is a more useful talent.
9.   You will make a great ‘used carts’ salesman.
10.   Your ability to manipulate people is uncanny. Keep it up and they will burn you for witchcraft.


Dodge

1.   Being hit sucks. You’re positive about that.
2.   If only there was a way to avoid being hit…
3.   You’ve made an important discovery – moving out of harm’s way in a timely manner does wonders for one’ life  expectancy.
4.   Practice - if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a bolt!
5.   Half-way there.
6.   Your dedication to the art of dodging is paying off – you’re still alive.
7.   You’ve gained the much covered ‘hard to hit’ status.
8.   You flow like water and bend like a reed.
9.   You should open your own kung-fu school when you retire from adventuring.
10.   Untouchable (fine print: some exceptions apply)

Thoughts? Help?
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Dragatus
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 10:57:06 AM »

My ego wishes to thank you for adopting my idea. smug

The labels seem mostly fine, the only one I'm not satisfied with is "skilled". To me the word skilled sounds like it should describe someone who is above average. I'd rather use something like "Half-trained" or "Semi-competent".

For proficiency level descriptions I would establish a default description that could apply across all skills before coming up with skill specific ones. The purpose of this is to standardise the levels of insults and praise so that descriptions are consistent between skills. The description for a specific skill should be roughly equivalent to the default description.

1: You completely suck.
2: You suck.
3: You kind of suck.
4: You almost don't suck anymore.
5: You're decent.
6: You're kind of good.
7: You're good.
8: You're very good.
9. You're the best.
10. You're the best ever. / You're better than the best.

Another general guidline I would impose is that each description should be able to stand on it's own. It's nice if a description of a higher proficiency builds up on the description of a lower proficiency, but it shouldn't require the player to have read the lower proficiency description in order to get the joke.


Sword

I mostly like the descriptions, though there is a typo in line 3. Should be "You've" instead of "You're". I'd also change a few lines a little.
2. You have added hacking and slashing to your repertoire and are no longer limited to stabbing them with the pointy end.
5. You’re getting the hang of it. Keep it up and you might become a good swordsman one day.

The change to 2 is in order to make the description work on it's own. The change to 5 is because "competent swordsman" implied that the player is currently an incompetent swordsman, which would make it sound like you're still below average.


Lore

Another typo. Line 3 should start with "You've" instead of "You're". Rank 10 sounds a little preachy, but I like the Socrates reference. Overall it looks good to me.

Persuasion

I love the first line, I couldn't stop laughing for 10 seconds after reading it. Approve I like most of the other lines as well, with the exception of "You will make a great ‘used carts’ salesman." I would prefer something along the lines of "Your words are more dangerous than most swords."

Streetwise

It's visible that you were running out of ideas, considering how many of the lines are the same as the ones you used in Persuasion. And I think they do work better in Persuasion and should be used there. The lines that are unique are good though. No suggestions for new descriptions at the moment.

Dodge

I don't like it much because it breaks my second guideline too much. I feel like the descriptions of  the early proficiency levels tell a story of someone who got better at dodging more than they describe each individual level. The 6th line is cool, but doesn't say anything about how good you are. 7 and 8 are fine, I guess. I don't like that #9 references kung-fu. And #10 could work, but it feels a little uncreative.

No suggestions for replacement descriptions here either for now.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 11:00:26 AM by Dragatus » Logged

"A little while ago, a good friend's wife asked me what playing Dungeons & Dragons involved. Long story short, it turns out that it's basically improv without an audience or time pressure, and a lot of rules. Every time anyone wants to attempt something, it's basically subject to a referee. Who is incidentally trying to kill you. In a fair and impartial manner." - Priapist

A Basic Guide to Combat in age of Decadence
ERYFKRAD
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 11:11:37 AM »

Hammers:

1. Yes, you swing with it.
2. Oh look, you can squash insects.
3. At least you won't hit yourself with it.
4. If only they would stand still, eh?
5. That's one way to pick a lock.
6. Not bad, you've learnt to crack a few bones with that.
7. That's a lot of flattened dreams and broken skulls.
8. No armor can save them.
9. Nothing like you and your hammer to send them running.
10. A one-man wrecking crew. Bravo.


Any good?

EDIT:
Also-

Stealing:

1. Maybe they shouldn't be looking while you're at it.
2. Ah, yes, move your fingers quickly. Who would have guessed.
3. You could successfully steal the money off a blind man. If it's dark. And if he's sleeping.
4. Distraction works, and you know it. Applying it, however...
5. Now if you could just get it out before they catch you.
6. You've acquired a fine way to get "discounts".
7. A little more finesse and you'll go far.
8. You'll get the better deal when shopping.
9. It's almost like they can't notice you. Almost.
10. Your hands are lightning. You'll get rich soon.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 11:27:09 AM by ERYFKRAD » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 11:39:06 AM »

Good ones! What about the other skils? Keep them coming! Grin
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Vince
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 11:45:46 AM »

My ego wishes to thank you for adopting my idea. smug
:brofist:

Quote
1: You completely suck.
2: You suck.
3: You kind of suck.
4: You almost don't suck anymore.
5: You're decent.
6: You're kind of good.
7: You're good.
8: You're very good.
9. You're the best.
10. You're the best ever. / You're better than the best.
Makes sense.

Quote
Streetwise

It's visible that you were running out of ideas...
Being overloaded, I figured that I would cut a few corners by copy-pasting similar skills (like persuasion and streetwise, swords and daggers, etc) and just tweaking a few words. No good?
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ERYFKRAD
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 11:52:46 AM »

Ok, before I lose momentum:

Sneak:

1. No, you cannot hide by putting a pot on your head.
2. Move while they're not looking. Genius.
3. You know now that darkness can help.
4. Hiding behind curtains can work.
5. They won't see you. If you're miles away.
6. You could hide, but those flashy clothes might give you away.
7. You can stay still and be silent.
8. Most won't see you coming.
9. It'll take a trained eye to spot you.
10. Wraith. Spectre. Ghost.
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Vince
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2013, 11:55:00 AM »

 Salute
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ERYFKRAD
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2013, 12:03:41 PM »

Axes:
1. You've learnt that axes aren't useful for wood alone.
2. Grabbing an axe by the handle is no longer impossible.
3. Now you can put some strength behind the blow.
4. You might even split a tree, but for now, you can cut plants.
5. You're getting better. You may no longer have to worry about cutting yourself.
6. Not many limbs stay together after you've dealt with them. Those that do might kill you, but hey.
7. Shield splitting is so easy now, you'd think you were highly incompetent once. Wait...
8. Those you face you may never be whole again.
9. Meat and wood alike tremble cower in your presence.
10. Run away, the butcher is in town.


Not as good, I feel. Will get back to this later.
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ERYFKRAD
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 12:18:23 PM »

Alchemy:
1. Wine and gunpowder do not mix. Lesson learnt.
2. You've learnt not to mistake acid for body wash oil. It'll heal, do not worry.
3. You poisons are feared, or you're a terrible chef.
4. The healing salves you brew work. They might smell and sting, but at least they don't make you nauseous anymore.
5. You've learnt to store it all in bottles. Your progress is certain. So far.
6. You can throw a bomb or two. You might explode with them, but's that just a minor detail.
7. Your poisons not only kill, they make your foes scream in pain. It's now just a matter of applying it on them.
8. You are sufficiently competent to know when someone is trying to slip one on you.
9. Your flasks are a greater terror than most soldiers.
10. All you have to do is show an empty goblet and they will beg for mercy.
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Oscar
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 12:53:44 PM »

Nice ones Salute
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Ergil
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 12:54:42 PM »

The weapon skill descriptions don't really seem to match the in-game experience, at least in R3. The special effects increase pretty slowly with skill, and THC is capped so against a lot of opponents high skill means little to nothing, especially with light weapons. The difference between 50 sword skill and 90 sword skill sure doesn't feel like the difference between "You're getting the hang of it" and "You fear neither men nor demons", for example.
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MaximillionMiles
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 01:01:02 PM »

I like the changes, and my ego also likes the opportunity, as Dragatus said.   smug

Here is my first:

Trading

1-   You like shiny things.
2-   Being in debt is a bad thing?
3-   Easy come, easy go.
4-   Buy low and sell high, sure. But how?
5-   Greed is good. You can exploit it.
6-   If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
7-   You can make anyone an offer that they can’t refuse.
8-   What makes a jewel different from colored glass? The price.
9-   When your goods don’t cross borders, your soldiers do.
10-   Money moves the world. And you move the money.
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Oscar
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 01:10:19 PM »

The weapon skill descriptions don't really seem to match the in-game experience, at least in R3. The special effects increase pretty slowly with skill, and THC is capped so against a lot of opponents high skill means little to nothing, especially with light weapons. The difference between 50 sword skill and 90 sword skill sure doesn't feel like the difference between "You're getting the hang of it" and "You fear neither men nor demons", for example.

Weapons won't get that much THC as bonus in R4.
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"Hasta la victoria, siempre."

"Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have it?"
Oscar
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 01:12:09 PM »

I like the changes, and my ego also likes the opportunity, as Dragatus said.   smug

Here is my first:

Trading

1-   You like shiny things.
2-   Being in debt is a bad thing?
3-   Easy come, easy go.
4-   Buy low and sell high, sure. But how?
5-   Greed is good. You can exploit it.
6-   If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
7-   You can make anyone an offer that they can’t refuse.
8-   What makes a jewel different from colored glass? The price.
9-   When your goods don’t cross borders, your soldiers do.
10-   Money moves the world. And you move the money.


Awesome! Something to keep in mind, as you did here, is to make the ones from point 5 onwards more positive.
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MidnightSun
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 01:17:39 PM »

Quote
If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Sounds good for streetwise.
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