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Scott
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« on: February 05, 2009, 10:47:14 AM »

This writing sample is a little bit different than the others.  It represents a dream that the player may have in advance of certain in game events.  Dreams are mostly passive.  The player will not resort to his skills, background, etc., and will have only a few crucial choices.  It's an experience half way between entirely narrative text, like a manuscript, and an actual text adventure.

The "real world" results at the end of the dream are minor.  More significant consequences arise later.

Hopefully you, the reader, will be able to parse out which decisions lead where.  I use tabs starting with PC1, PC2, etc. to denote possible replies.

* DreamWitchHunters_021109.pdf (26.11 KB - downloaded 198 times.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 12:13:52 PM by Scott » Logged

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Vince
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 02:50:43 PM »

Finally had a chance to read it. Loved it. Was very disappointed it when the dream ended. Experiencing this in an RPG would be fantastic.

Edit: first reply? Nobody else liked it? You know, the best way to encourage developers to post more is to stay silent.
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Plalito
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 03:02:05 PM »

I was just reading it. People are talking about it on the codex btw. Yeah I really liked the dream concept, and as I was reading I was conflicted in what course I would take if I was playing. I especially like the 'killing the witch' branch, especially the end. What a way to end a dream.
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FireStomp
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 03:07:25 PM »

Wow... I really like it. It's dry, but well-written; the imagery is efficient, and fairly scary when it needs to be; and the branching paths are well-crafted to suit most possible choices. It's very good, especially given how different it is from the other dream we've yet been shown. Your versatility is second only to your talent, Scott.

I just can't wait to see what the outcome of helping the witch is.
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caster
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 04:14:44 PM »

I liked it. There are few sentences that maybe could be better put and used, changed or edited but those are minor details.
As i mentioned over at codex i thought word "glamour" and how it was used was funky.
Reminded me of Prestige for a second and that can only be a good thing.
I like the style and options and consequences.

Liked the scene when those men hack the witch but she isnt dying despite the mutilation and wounds inflicted. She cannot get hacked to pieces but she still suffers the wounds. And looks at the player while they are doing that to her. And it lasts.

Reminds me on how the assassin of Archduke Ferdinand on 28 June, 1914 ended his existence on this earth. The guards just knocked him down right there and hacked him with their sabers. He instinctively raised his arms and they didnt bother with trying to stab him, intentionally, so like six or more of them just slashed all over him so much that they cut off everything from his arms and face and all over.
One of the gruesomest scenes i saw and grainy black and white old movie made it only worse somehow.
Seemed like it lasts a really long time. To him especially.
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2009, 04:01:55 AM »

The dream scene is very good. Keep up the good work, dude.  Salute
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 12:39:58 PM »

A couple of minor details i noticed when reading that i think could be improved. A few nitpicks. Copied over from Codex for those who dont read it.
Quote
You understand then that you are in a dream, but sense that your actions yet have some import.
- Is not really necessary. By giving that info to the player you warn him and remind him he is gaming.
I think it would be better just to let the player experience the dream and have all outcomes as a surprise.

Quote
Enos unsheathes his sword, a carefully maintained cavalry saber, and rests it across his legs --- to punctuate his words.
Is there a need to specify he does so "to punctuate his words"? Would it not be better if that was left out so that the player figures that out for himself?
Its not really difficult to guess, its pretty straightforward and well known "move" so if it is to have any effect it should be left to the player to make the conclusion on his own.

Quote
As your heart slows to a steady and regular beat and you begin to more calmly assess your situation, a huge black bird breaks from the foliage directly overhead with a raucous croak, making straight west with all speed.
/ For reasons you do not understand, this is more terrifying than anything else you have witnessed. /
The ending here puzzles me a bit and i feel that rearranging the closing sentence or describing it in slightly different way could work better.
Something like ... "its flight leaves/makes you more terrified ..." etc
or,
"hurried flaps of its wings terrify you more then..." - etc.

Quote
dirk which slips with still less noise between your shoulder blades.
The expression "still less noise" doesnt sit well with me. Seems a little cumbersome in that sentence though english is not my native language so i may be wrong.
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Palmer Eldritch
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 12:45:09 PM »

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to properly critique this, but I just wanted to say that I read it and enjoyed it  Salute
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DangerousDan
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 09:27:34 PM »

Just read. Liked it thematically, the conversation tree made it difficult to read as a linear piece, which probably reduced the dramatic tension of your past pieces. However, it is a fine bit of writing for an ingame dream sequence. Steadily growing in anticipation for this game.
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Euchrid
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2009, 09:17:41 AM »

Edit: first reply? Nobody else liked it? You know, the best way to encourage developers to post more is to stay silent.
And the best way to discourage an active community is for developers to become petulant attention whores Wink.


On topic: A well realised sequence and an enjoyable read. I do have a few hasty minor criticisms, take or leave them as you like (seems to me most are criticisms of an intended effect)...

I feel the writing is a tad dry in parts, reading more like a detached recounting of events than a visceral experience - funnily enough, this mostly pertains to the sections where the PC is an active participant. The dream is, at one point, described by the PC as terrifying, this did not come across in the reading, and a couple of potentially terrifying moments are related a little matter of factly.

The introductory paragraph is the strongest section, full of uncertainty and menace. The conversation with the witch is functional, and probably fine, but I think it could do with a little more "snap", foreboding, personality or whatever is most appropriate. Dialogue with the witch hunters and most outcomes are spot on. Description of the witch's supposedly terrifying visage, is written well enough, but fails to make an emotional connection, and is one of those missed moments of terror mentioned earlier (of course, I cannot know whether this was intended or not). The laying out of Enos and cutting open of the witch also falls a bit flat, description of the former is particularly curt.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 09:20:16 AM by Euchrid » Logged
Scott
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2009, 11:47:15 AM »

Just wanted to say thanks for the criticisms everyone.  They're quite useful.  Stay tuned for an update with some edits in the near future.

and now for a word from my favourite emoticon:   Salute
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Scott
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 12:15:45 PM »

**updated with minor edits**
thanks to caster and Euchrid for suggestions
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caster
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 07:35:10 PM »

Glad i could help a little. New version is much better but i came across some details i didnt pay enough attention to on first reading.

Quote
The riders see you! The wind bites your bare arms.
It seems to me this line works much better on its own without the next:
Quote
/You are changed from observer to participant./


Quote
As officials of the colonial government we cannot collect that reward. You may however.
PC1 All right, I will show you exactly where she is.
Here, it may be desirable to have those guys say how high is the reward. And Pc clearly accepting the task because of the money.
"500 gold... your mouth went a little dry when you imagined all that money spilling through your fingers" - or something in that style.
Also i think word exactly isnt necesary in that answer. Seems a little too precise for that moment.

Quote
ENOS. Enos looks to his fellows, and they turn their gazes to the ground or the sky or the trees about them. His horse whickers and he finally turns back to you. Death, of course.
PC1 All right, I will show you exactly where she is.
Here its not really clear why do you acquiesce. Maybe making Enos lines a bit more threatening? Since death is the last word there you could just add that he looked at the player significantly when saying that and make answer like this:
PC1 All... all right, I will show you... exactly where she is.
- (addition) - you stammer hurriedly.

And word exactly may stay in this case since because it can be interpreted as a desire to please caused by fear.


Quote
With a start you wake, your legs still making cycling motions. Despite the terror of your dream you appear to be no worse off, other than feeling poorly rested.
I like the cycling motion of the legs here but up to this point the dream hasnt been much terrifying and word terror seems even stronger form of that. maybe say something like:
With your heart racing receding to a more normal beat you find yourself no worse off, other then some cold sweat trickling down (over?) your brow (face?) and feeling poorly rested. 

Quote
He rushes her but she somehow dances beneath the horse’s belly and stands now on the opposite side of the clearing.
Since this is the intro into the fight against the witch and her first significant move i though it may be a good thing if she used going under the horse belly to cut it open so fast its entrails fall onto the ground, it makes a few steps and colapses - which makes its rider jump down and others dismount their horses quickly in fear.

Squealing of the dying horse may serve as a  nice little horrible background noise for the bigger part of the fight and as additional negative influence on the PC as he takes next actions choosing to fight against or for the hunters.

And all of it would make the witch an adversary to be feared even more.


Quote
Your breath comes in harsh gasps which you fear must betray you, but at last you are able to chop at the witch from behind, laying open her back.
Words: "but at last you are able" dont convey the how frantic the situation is. And chop is maybe not the best choice since PC is slashing across her back "laying them open" .
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Dicksmoker
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 10:35:59 AM »

I just read this and decided to give my thoughts. I'll likely be necroing some old threads in the following weeks.

I like this dream idea alot. It will completely take the gamer by surprise. About what percentage of players will be getting this dream? Roughly how far in the game will they be? Just throw some numbers out, please.

Anyway, the writing is for the most part very good. I definitely got some PST vibes reading it. There's only one thing I really had an issue with.

From the beginning:
Quote
“It is known the birds and beasts serve her,” he responds. “Why not the moon itself?”
“Do not credit her too much,” the tallest one chuckles.

Take out the word "chuckles." Please.

Moving onward to the witch conversation, I was thinking that maybe you might have learned about her in the real world, and such knowledge might give you some bargaining power over her.

So I added some dialogue:

PC2 "Why do they pursue you?"
  • WITCH: They pursue their own fever for power. They believe they can wring knowledge from me like a sponge. All they will discover is the cold of the lime pit. Now. You will help me.
    • PC1 [see *Yes, I will…]
      PC2 [see *I have no wish…]
      PC3 "I will? That's quite presumptuous of you, even if you are a witch."
      • WITCH: She cocks her head at you, as if considering. Finally she says, "I presume much because I know much. And you know little. So you will do as I say. But have no fear, you will be well rewarded."
        • PC1 "I will do nothing unless I know the reason for it, crone."
          PC2 "Very well, but the reward better be great indeed."
          PC3 "If I know so little, then you should inform me. If I am to help you, the more I know, the better. Unless there is something you don't want me to know..."
          PC4 "I want nothing to do with the affairs of witches, now or ever. I will not help you."
          PC5 "Do not speak to me in such a way. I know you, old crone. I know your name. I know how you [insert secret/weakness]. So you would do best to listen to me, [insert name], if you wish my assistence."
          • WITCH: Her eyes had narrowed to slits during your tirade. Now she studies you silently. You cannot quite tell if it is fear on her face, or anger, or amusement, or perhaps all three. Finally she speaks, the rasp of leaves on stone. "So, you wish to travel that path, then. I wonder, do you know where it will lead?" She waves her arms, as if shooing a fly. "Very well then. Bargain."
            • [PC gets a variety of options.]

Now, moving on to the next scene...

I would like some bargaining here as well, instead of just a simple yes or no. Even if it leads to nowhere, I would still like the option.

And also, for helping them at end in killing the witch: I don't like getting stabbed in the back. It takes away some moral ambiguity. I would prefer that they were in fact honest about the reward, and that by helping them you officially become an "apprentice" in their order, or whatever. And they gradually tighten the leash.

But, if you decide to keep the backstab, make it so that the player might be able to avoid it, perhaps if he has high perception. And then let him attempt flight.
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Flop
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 10:41:04 AM »

A very interesting read. I'm assuming that the witch is in league with one of the great old ones, probably Shub-Niggurath, which makes me wonder why it might be a good idea to help her (and why the witch hunters betray you). I can't wait to see how this plays out in the game.

Reminds me on how the assassin of Archduke Ferdinand on 28 June, 1914 ended his existence on this earth. The guards just knocked him down right there and hacked him with their sabers. He instinctively raised his arms and they didnt bother with trying to stab him, intentionally, so like six or more of them just slashed all over him so much that they cut off everything from his arms and face and all over.
One of the gruesomest scenes i saw and grainy black and white old movie made it only worse somehow.
Seemed like it lasts a really long time. To him especially.

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but the guy who killed Franz Ferdinand was caught and sentenced to hard labour. Maybe you're thinking of someone else?
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