[renkin]

The problem with that is that it can often be abused in ridiculous ways. Like in Morrowind, how jumping down the same rock over and over again, spraining my foot every time, would eventually make me an adept acrobat.

That depends on the game. In a ISO game where your options to use your skills are limited that won't happen. For example, let's use AoD. There is no random combat, and if you get into random fights you'll get your ass hitted so hard that you will not be able to improve anything, you can't use streetwise in anyone you meet, as it's limited to quests, there is not an endless supply of items for crafting. Anyway, you get the point. The problem is that for many people it would be boring, as they find allocating skill points fun.

You're right, learning through usage can work if care is taken when designing the game (which should always be the case, of course), but my experience is that those systems are almost always broken. Your point about it not being fun is also a good one.

[Geofferic]

I advocate another option all together.

Skill-based system, but you get skill points in the skill you used as you use it.  Think Ultima Online.

However, where we diverge from UO is here:  For every so many skill-points earned (choose your favorite arbitrary number) you receive a 'free' skill point to be put into any category you like.

So for example, you use a long sword 100 times and you get 1 skill point increase in long sword using.  You use a long sword 500 times and you get 5 skill point increases in long sword as well as 1 generic skill point that you can put into needle point or algebra or underwater basket weaving or even long sword, if you're not as contrarian as I am.

[caster]

I kind of like level up system. Maybe just because i so influenced by Fallout but it always seemed to me it was a kind of reward you get after managing to go through the game for a while.

In adition to that and only as an adition i would like to see some form of getting better at what you do by doing it.
It can be automatic or you could receive skill points to distribute as in trickle design. These should be minor tweaks.

Also one very important thing to have in the leveling or skill system would be the separation of skills and skill points you receive to say... combat points, dialogue points and so on. So you would not be able to spend combat related exp points or skill points to anything else but combat skills. And you wouldnt be able to increase combat skills with exp or skill points received from non combat quests and... reading books and so on.


I quite like the traits idea since those remind of of perks from Fallout and i was just going to ask about something like those.

[Scott]

You will *occasionally* earn fixed Skill points, ie. +1 to Arcanum, in game, but they won't be the main source of earned points.  You can get these fixed points from reading books, getting training, or finishing a quest in a certain way that shows your commitment to one approach, like sneaking and lying your way through a quest instead of shooting.

[Ted]

Skill-based system, but you get skill points in the skill you used as you use it. However... For every so many skill-points earned (choose your favorite arbitrary number) you receive a 'free' skill point to be put into any category you like.

This sounds sensible. Or the D&D approach: you get your skill points every level, but less often you can take the Skill focus feat.

I'm hoping for suggestions for Deceit Traits in this thread.

Well I would have said Disguise, Forgery and Conceal Weapon, but looking at the other thread you've already dealt with those. There's Bluffing in general (which can be used in combat, since this is turn-based)... Sense Motive, too: you don't kid a kidder. That would be a cross-skill trait, I guess: did you have any of those in mind? Maybe the ability to cheat at cards (if thats relevant) or fool people trying to use hypnotism or other mind-affecting powers on you (if thats relevant).

certain Traits can only be purchased by the player at a library! If you are lost in another dimension, get your level up, and decide to purchase the Trait Lockpick I, forget it. You cannot learn to pick locks while losing your mind fighting cultists. I acknowledge that some Traits a person could not reasonably be expected to learn in a short span of time. This is a compromise.

I REALLY like this