[Brian]

While I’ve written a lot of introductions and quest/shelter dialogue for the game already, I’ve recently finished the first character death scene in the game and I’m pleased with the result. I’m not one to usually get emotionally affected by deaths in movies or TV shows, but it was definitely tough to get through that dialogue and I’m pretty happy to say that Dead State is going to be tragic in all the right ways.

Let me first explain my view on death scenes – they’re generally hokey. Assuming the characters aren't saved miraculously seconds before doom, people in most media die heroically or calmly in bed surrounded by loved ones. They get touching or reassuring last words, they die slowly and gracefully holding hands, they hold on long enough to complete a complex task, and everyone remembers their noble sacrifice with appropriate honors. Cowardly and evil characters get punished, while sympathetic characters will see another day. Everybody earns the death they deserve.

It’s all pretty much the opposite of how death actually hits in the real world. Death is frequently sudden and unexpected – a car crash, a sudden malfunction of the body, or a household accident. Loved ones die on the operating table before they can say goodbye. A bite of tainted meat, untreated pneumonia, a bee sting – it could happen at any time. But like almost everything in fiction, even death is romanticized, because we at least want to hope that we’ll die on our own terms and that our death will have meaning.

Since Dead State is a videogame, let’s take a look at that genre first. It is very hard to point to games where death has any impact beyond the heroic example or melodramatic event. For one, death is an inconvenience in most games. One phoenix down, resurrect spell, second wind shot, or reload later and death is cured. Characters only die in cutscenes, and then these are usually sacrifices or manufactured tragedies designed to “motivate” your character (though you yourself are probably motivated by the promise of loot and an experience system). Most enemies or allies are designed to die at pre-determined parts of the story, like any other kind of fiction. There are very few games where a player is afraid for the safety of their companions, which in a way makes them feel less real.

Movies and TV have frequently relied on death for cheap drama or resolution. While there has been a lot of maturity in the storytelling (especially in cable television dramas) there will always be the good guy lives/bad guy dies, famous last words, and morality plays. But there have been plenty of deaths in movies and TV that have come out of nowhere or that were painful to watch (emotionally) in a very real way. Death of a main or a popular character before half the movie or TV series was over, characters in an unwinnable scenario, and quick and senseless deaths have all been used to elicit a feeling from the viewer that the story is not playing by the rules. At this point, subverting a trope or expectations is enough to shock an audience and make them start worrying about the characters’ fates.

Dead State is open-ended – any NPC can die at any time. Some of the death in the game relies on personal player attachment and game mechanics to punctuate the event - for example, having a favorite character get killed while out scavenging. Here one minute, gone the next. Characters react to death of loved ones, but life goes on. However, some deaths are the slow, lingering type – the death of infected, specifically. These are the deaths I’ve been writing at the moment. It’s one thing to have someone get shot by another scavenger senselessly, but watching them die in front of you and having to execute them before they turn (for the good of the shelter) is a more gut-wrenching experience.  What’s worse – losing someone unexpectedly or watching them die slowly in front of you without being able to do anything?

Some of these characters may have bonded with you and some may not. They may want you to be the one to end it, or they might know you’re taking a perverse pleasure in it. Some might even take matter into their own hands before you can get to it. The goal of all of the “story” deaths (the deaths I have to write) is to make characters believably come to terms with their own death. You may know these characters well, having had them with you for months, or you may have met them last week, and the dialogue needs to reflect your level of familiarity and your relationship with that person. Even if you don’t like a character, the horror of what is about to happen to them needs to affect you at a basic human level. For some of these deaths, I’ve used some of my favorite uses of death in cinema and TV as a goal to hit with death in Dead State.

FROM HERE ON, THERE BE SPOILERS:

1.   In the movie Serenity,

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the character of Wash is killed in his pilot seat (the ship being “home”) suddenly while in mid-sentence. Sure, it’s after a save the day moment, but it comes out of nowhere as the character is reacting to his success. The death of the best-liked member of the crew sent a message to the audience that nobody else was safe from that point on in the film. In conventional plots, his death would have either not occurred or would have been slow enough that he could have told his wife how much he loved her.

2.   In Stanley Kubrick’s Paths of Glory,

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three men are chosen to be executed for the actions of their squad. Their deaths are meant to be an example more than a punishment. We watch their final days alive, hoping they will be saved at the last minute. They know what their fate will be and are helpless to do anything about it and in the third act, we must watch them endure the last night of their lives. Their leader, who argues futilely for their release, must watch men under his command be executed by a firing squad. The slow, agonizing realization that the main characters’ (senseless) deaths cannot be escaped is difficult to accept no matter how many times one sees the movie. 

3.   In the TV series Six Feet Under,

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lots of inglorious ends start the show out (one per show, actually, with a signature fade to black), but throughout the series there are multiple unexpected deaths, including one of the show’s primary characters. There are no final words to loved ones, in fact this character has an aneurysm as he’s breaking up with the mother of his child. While we expect that he will regain consciousness to give closure to loved ones or comfort them, he never does, and in fact, dies suddenly after one last mundane dream. The rest of the show is about dealing with the sudden loss of someone close, which is also how the show begins. To further hit home, the show ends with a montage of every single character’s last moments. 

4.   In Night of the Living Dead,

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very few people are sympathetic and no one is safe. Everyone dies, even the survivor of the zombie attacks – ultimately at the hands of other humans. Daughters eat mothers, helpful characters get blown up, and the “hero” gets the rest killed after stubbornly refusing to change his plan. There’s a reason this movie is set the rules for the zombie genre.

Hopefully Dead State will provide drama and horror without our having to flash a “feel bad now” sign. Refuse the temptation to “save resurrect” and let your shelter’s tragedy unfold naturally. You may have a situation where someone just isn’t close enough to reach in time. You may have to personally put down friends in their last moments. Death will never play out the same way in anyone’s playthrough. It will always be permanent.  No character is safe.  Death will never be exploited, it will just be.




(Note, if you discuss this post, use spoiler tags and PLEASE DON'T SPOIL ANYTHING because I do not watch a lot of newer stuff and also common courtesy.)

[Bjergtrold]

A recent show which has proven itself to be of amazing quality (on par with The Wire), is the fantasy series A Game of Thrones. It is tragic, beautiful, dramatic, and merciless... And it has deaths. And tragedies. Some are predictable, while others are not, but it certainly lets you know all along that none of the characters are safe in any way.

If you haven't seen the series, don't read this spoiler. Just don't... really. You want the surprise when it happens, or your experience will be ruined.

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The most shocking example was in the 9th episode, where Eddard is executed. I'm still in shock several days after watching it... 

And just watch it. All of you. I don't know what kind of senseless mundane stuff you fill your days with, but I can garantee you that watching this series will be a more awesome use of your time. Even if you're programming Dead State   There's a lot of inspiration to be found in it.

[TailSwallower]

3.   In the TV series Six Feet Under,

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lots of inglorious ends start the show out (one per show, actually, with a signature fade to black), but throughout the series there are multiple unexpected deaths, including one of the show’s primary characters. There are no final words to loved ones, in fact this character has an aneurysm as he’s breaking up with the mother of his child. While we expect that he will regain consciousness to give closure to loved ones or comfort them, he never does, and in fact, dies suddenly after one last mundane dream. The rest of the show is about dealing with the sudden loss of someone close, which is also how the show begins. To further hit home, the show ends with a montage of every single character’s last moments. 

That ending is absolutely perfect, and completely heart breaking. Brought tears to my eyes and would come back and haunt me numerous times over the following days. I bought the Sia album that the song is from and every time I hear it it takes me back.

[Sicram]

I'm hoping there'll be an option where you can only have one save "slot" for the playthrough. A "normal" kind of save style would be nice too. I remember there being a big thread discussing this but haven't read it in a while.

This game sounds better and better all the time!

[wiande]

There's tv show in which you fear for the characters, and only few tv show gave me that feeling, like Breaking Bad, or Dexter.

I will always remember in the movie "save the soldier ryan" i don't know the exact name in english

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when there's a german putting slowly a knife in the american soldier's heart, it was very violent to see, and i guess that violence is really bellow the realities of the horrors of war

Also in the Monarchies of God, a series of real fantasy/middle ages, in which at war you see the true reality of the behaviours of man, not like unrealistic heroic/fantasy stuff in which the heroes is without fear, and full of honor, only the bad people are bad and evil (like in the lord of the ring) everything is black or white. But in this one

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the battle for power is everywhere, the agressed kingdoms are not above reproach, and once the barbarity of the evil invaders vanish, we see they're human, like all humans, just different in some kinds. But War stories, are full of raped women, and kids who gets horribly slaughtered once raped.

But the view of death gets pretty banal when at war on or crisis like for said a zombie apocalypse, if it last for weeks, people might get used to it. Being sad but not cry, cause they've seen too many.

In the walking dead

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we also see the death of loved ones, affecting greatly the others character depending on the personality of each. The one they put aside cause infected, to die alone, was really sad

[deadkeepwalking]

There is also, in my opinion anyway, Fellowship of the Ring:

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Boromir dies in what should be a heroic battle to save Merry and Pippin, but in the end he not only fails to protect them, his pride is shattered, he realizes how weak he truly is, and later, Boromir's death drives his father into madness and suicide.

The movies played up the "heroic" part while the books focused on the tragic result.

A Game of Thrones has really become popular.  Starts as a series of European Novels, French I think, becomes a Card game distributed by Fantasy Flight Games, now has become a popular TV Series on a premium channel I don't have and can't afford, and even a computer game along the lines of the Total War Series is under development.

I would think that the writing for the Deaths in Dead State is how the various NPCs in the shelter will react to the Death, that being more difficult.

If you are worried about "Save Resurrect" exploitation, you could try something that has become common in Turn Based Strategy Games over the past few years, Preserve Random Seed.  It prevents the "End of Turn Save, something bad happens on opponent's turn, Reload until you get a better result you are willing to accept" exploit by making the opponent's turn play out exactly the same, i.e. if bad guy #3 scores a critical hit on you, no matter how many times you reload bad guy #3 will always score that critical hit.

For a Hardcore mode, only allow saving in the Shelter.

[DoesntExist]

I think this is how death should be predicted--realistically.  As far as death not being exploited, perhaps you meant gameplay mechanics.  But as far as within the context of the game world, I think it should be exploited as much as it makes sense for a character to do so.  For instance, if you have a sociopathic character who attempts to manipulate you by falsely exhibiting signs of loss in an attempt to get some sort of favor from you, that would work I think.  Poor example, but you get the idea.

[Caidoz]

Great update, and another example of why I'm so eager for Dead State to come out.

I've always been irked by the ease with which many video game characters treat death and resurrection - as Brian said, bringing your favorite character back to life is often just one Phoenix Down away.  But when I play an RTS game or anything similar with tactical choices and lots of characters, I go out of my way to ensure that people stay dead.  It's just more fun for me to think of the battle as an opportunity for the characters to avenge a fallen comrade, rather than just as another mission with a basic objective; get to the other side of the screen, kill all the enemies, etc.

With Dead State, I hope to be filled with sorrow, guilt, and remorse at every turn.  I know that if I lose a friend on a scavenging mission, I'll live with that result and finish out the game, but the rest of the time I'm playing that particular game, I'll be beating myself up over losing that character.  The fact that the game anticipates, and embraces, this mentality is even better.  Not only will I not forget the characters I've lost, but the other NPC characters won't let me either.  The result is an emotional, realistic scenario that really adds a lot to the story.

Out of curiosity, Brian, are you only writing the "infected deaths" where the character has a chance to communicate before their demise, or will you also be writing "sudden deaths"?  I'm just wondering if it will be possible for a character to literally die mid-sentence.  This would require either scripted scenes, or making turns pass during dialogue or something, but those don't seem particularly viable options.  I just think it would be incredible if you were having a nice, normal conversation with someone while scavenging, and mid-convo you get ambushed and your friend dies without ever finishing his sentence.  Was he telling you about something he found, passing on a message, etc?  Now you'll never know, and that's the kind of thing that would stick in your head, both in a realistic situation, and as a player.

[Brian]

Out of curiosity, Brian, are you only writing the "infected deaths" where the character has a chance to communicate before their demise, or will you also be writing "sudden deaths"?  I'm just wondering if it will be possible for a character to literally die mid-sentence.  This would require either scripted scenes, or making turns pass during dialogue or something, but those don't seem particularly viable options.  I just think it would be incredible if you were having a nice, normal conversation with someone while scavenging, and mid-convo you get ambushed and your friend dies without ever finishing his sentence.  Was he telling you about something he found, passing on a message, etc?  Now you'll never know, and that's the kind of thing that would stick in your head, both in a realistic situation, and as a player.

No, that would be a scripted event, and I don't want to kill people's characters unless they made a decision leading to that. For example, you make the wrong call in a dialogue and get ambushed as a result. But there will be surprises all over the place. I've already written quite a few scenarios that can go a variety of ways, depending on what you say or do or how many people are in your party and a couple of other ways I won't spoil. No "you die" decisions - I'm not a fan of dying due to not predicting designer logic.

[Caidoz]

That works!

And really, sounds just as appealing as a scripted event.  Scenarios sound good, with dialogue choices/party layout affecting the outcome.  I don't want to guess as to the other scenarios, to avoid potential spoilers, but it'd be extra-spectacular if your choices of WHO to have in your party can affect scenarios as well.  For example, what would otherwise be a very normal scenario could turn deadly if you had two characters in your party who despise each other.

[deadkeepwalking]

Good to hear that none of that Sierra "do this in this exact manner or die" garbage will exist.

Some such examples I have encountered:
"You just took down an entire bar full of bad guys, but because you didn't kick the unconscious drunkard in the corner during the fight, he wakes up and snaps your neck.  If you kick the unconscious drunkard in the corner during the fight, he won't wake up and you get to live."
"You forget to take off your belt before trying take off your pants, and while fighting to take off your pants, you trip and fall, cracking your skull open on the nearest rock/table/whatever is nearby."
"You enter a stable to talk to someone, but because you deviated a measly 1 (yes ONE) pixel off the 'safe path' a horse kicks you and you die."
"You pick up the letter opener before picking up the envelope, and end up cutting your own wrist open as you reach for the envelope."
"You move 1 pixel too close to the edge of the cliff and whole cliff collapses causing you to fall to your death.  Had you not moved that 1 pixel too far, the cliff would remain intact despite the entire cliff having collapsed just a reload before."

I hate that kind of design, and every Sierra Adventure game had that garbage in it.

[Daniele]

For a Hardcore mode, only allow saving in the Shelter.

For a real hardcore realistic mode:

• saving allowed only in the shelter
• only one slot to save the game, only one game at a time
• player can die
• if the player dies, the save file gets corrupted

Optionally: you can save and reload only once a day, if you reload the same file twice, it gets corrupted. If you restart the whole game, a zombie spawns behnd you and YOU are corrupted.


That's a zombie apocalypse, after all. That is: write once, use once.

[Goweigus]

For a Hardcore mode, only allow saving in the Shelter.

For a real hardcore realistic mode:

• saving allowed only in the shelter
• only one slot to save the game, only one game at a time
• player can die
• if the player dies, the save file gets corrupted

Optionally: you can save and reload only once a day, if you reload the same file twice, it gets corrupted. If you restart the whole game, a zombie spawns behnd you and YOU are corrupted.


That's a zombie apocalypse, after all. That is: write once, use once.

I'm hoping the devs put some effort into making the game more hard core for those who want, while also improving it for those who don't want a super hardcore experience.

[Colt]

Using different save game rules and such in difficulty level is really not a bad idea. Rather special too.

Personally, though, I'm going to go with the ability to save the game any time I need. I have a toddler and that means I need to instantly drop and pick up the game again repeatedly without any issues.

[Brian]

Using different save game rules and such in difficulty level is really not a bad idea. Rather special too.

Personally, though, I'm going to go with the ability to save the game any time I need. I have a toddler and that means I need to instantly drop and pick up the game again repeatedly without any issues.

Before this turns into a save/load thread, let me remind everyone that the save/load issue is covered in the FAQ and has been covered extensively in other threads. Read those over and post additional save/load ideas in the Suggestions for the Devs thread.