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Author Topic: The art of spellcasting  (Read 111050 times)
Vince
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« on: March 14, 2010, 08:58:13 pm »

Instead of introduction...

It's an article about magic systems. One day Gareth and I were talking about magic in games and the good ol' days. This discussion resulted in a quick one page draft which I sent to Gareth. He added his own thoughts and sent it back to me. I added a few comments and for the next few weeks the article did a lot of traveling back and forth, and kept growing in size until it turned into a 12-page tome of wisdom, at which point it was trimmed down in size and wisdom and became an 8-page manuscript of useless knowledge. Unless you're a gamer.

Without further ado...


1. The Nature of Magic.

This would seem to be the most fundamental of questions, but many RPGs simply gloss over it. "Magic is a mysterious energy which can do anything, thus it can be used to justify anything we want to throw in the game, hooray!". The problem with this approach is that unlimited freedom isn't necessarily desirable. Writers and designers know that sometimes the most interesting ideas arise from imposed constraints. Compare two classic Pen and Paper RPG settings :

The Forgotten Realms: In this setting magic is everywhere and can do anything and everything. While magic is spectacular, it feels fairly generic.

Dark Sun: In this setting, magic is drawn from the life force of living things. Conscientious Preserver mages must work to ensue they take no more than their environment can support. Defilers, on the other hand, draw recklessly. Their magic tears the life from the very soil, leaving it unable to sustain plants for generations. The attempts by such Defiler mages in the past to achieve godhood have left their world a barren desert.

The nature of magic in the Dark Sun setting emphasizes the setting's focus on survival under harsh conditions, it is distinctive and memorable, more-so than the Forgotten Realms.

Games from the World of Darkness setting are particularly good at building theme into the nature of their magic systems. In Vampire: The Masquerade, magical power comes from blood and the generation of the vampire. The closer you are to the original vampire progenitor, to Caine, the stronger your blood abilities. This idea of blood-based magic leads to a number of interesting mechanics around the spending of that blood which will be talked about later. Similarly, in the Mage: the Ascension game, the nature of magic is a core element of the setting. Magic is the belief of an Awakened individual, belief so strong it can shape reality. Yet other people have their own idea about what reality should look like. The mage must constantly struggle against the unconscious beliefs of the Sleepers, beliefs which are like a great smothering weight resisting the mage in his shapings.

By addressing the fundamental nature of magic itself, game designers can create a source for interesting ideas and game mechanics. In Dragon Age, the fact that mages manipulate the Fade, the realm of dreams, and that doing so makes them susceptible to demonic possession shapes some of the core plots in the game. Deciding on what magic is and where it comes from should be the first step for any designer wishing to add depth and texture to their magic mechanics.


2. The Evolution of Spellcasting

When Jack Vance was writing 'The Dying Earth' he probably didn't realize the spell memorization concept that he developed would influence role-playing for decades to come. Gary Gygax decided to adopt the system for his fledgling wargaming system and the rest is, as they say, history. Fragile, grey bearded wizards who painstakingly memorized spells and waited for opportune moments to unleash magical mayhem became a staple of the role-playing genre.

Fast forward in time and a change begins to take place. The RPG genre begins to migrate from the tabletop to computer. But translating the RPG from a slow paced game that can be played a couple of times a week, when all your players can fit in the hours required, to a game that can be played every night by a single player on a computer that crunches the numbers at lightning speed, well, that results in problems. The PnP systems of old weren't designed for this new environment, they were designed for smaller doses of content dished out less often. So computer RPG designers pad the experience, adding in vastly more combat encounters than any PnP game would have.



But the Vancian system isn't a good fit for this faster pace, wizards get only a handful of spells per day to work with. While a warrior can keep pushing through combat encounters until they take too much damage, a wizard needs to be frugal with his cache of memorized spells. The lower levels of play are especially tedious for mage players. Either you have to rely on a party to support your fragile character until he reaches respectable levels of power or you have to sleep between each and every encounter. Which either results in further tedium in the form of trips back to town, or adding the ability to sleep whenever and wherever the player wants to the game, completely breaking the balance.

To counter this CPRGs started to move from the Vancian system to one based around mana, usually with some form of regeneration involved (even if that regeneration takes the form of constantly drinking mana potions). Now mages aren't such a drag to play, they can contribute to each fight on an equal level with the other character archetypes and need far less downtime. The action can continue unabated!



But this change introduces another problem. If mages have a pool of energy to draw on that can be regenerated between fights, what is to stop players from simply burning through their entire mana pool in each and every fight? Also, why would a mage bother to do anything but chain-cast their best combat spells? If you limit mana pool size or mana regeneration too much to discourage players from spam-casting, you re-introduce the problem where players feel like they are sitting around waiting while the fighters have all the fun. Hmmm, back to the drawing board.

Aha! An answer is found : cool-downs. Long casting times get in the way of non-stop action gameplay, so that time delay is deferred to the end of the spell. Cool-downs ensure that you cannot simply chain-cast your favourite spell. And varying the cool-down period applied to individual spells ensures that players will mix weaker spells in with their more powerful ones. Working out the optimal 'casting rotation' becomes a meta-game in and of itself in some MMOs.

Ironically, this evolution of magic mechanics ends up coming full circle. Wizards of the Coast realize that their primary competition isn't other PnP systems but the new kids on the block, MMOs. In an effort to broaden appeal, they incorporate the designs of these MMOs into the 4th Edition of DnD. Now DnD mages get a pool of spells they can cast 'at will' or 'per encounter' or 'per day'. The Warlock is another compromise, Warlocks can spam their abilities to their heart's content, they simply lack the variety of other caster types. But these changes may be a case of 'too little, too late', MMOs now hold an iron grip on the hearts and wallets of their player bases.

Though the widespread adoption of mana and cooldowns may have originated from the need to keep up the flow of action and to balance combat encounters, the move from a slot based system into 'number pools' is a more natural one for a digital environment. The sheer number-crunching power of a computer means that designs can incorporate elements that would swamp a human game master in details, while the interface provides a means of conveying these complex numbers to players at a glance.

For example, say the player has 200 mana points, casts a spell which uses 75 mana and is on cool-down for 5 seconds, is naturally regenerating 10 mana a second and then 2 seconds later drinks a potion that increases their mana regeneration by 300% for 10 seconds. Now multiply that by number of combat participants with spellcasting abilities and, well it would start getting painful for a GM to track.  For a computer it is a trivial task. Not only that, the player can take in this information fairly organically by looking at their mana bar and how quickly it changes, as well as the cooldown tickers on their spells. The simplicity of the visual interface hides a degree of complexity that would bog down a PnP game.

Though allowing player selection of spellcasting power is a feature seen in PnP systems too, that extra computational power allows the idea to be taken even further. The upcoming indie title The Broken Hourglass extends the idea of managing your mana distribution in an interesting way. In the words of Jason Compton, Broken Hourglass developer :

"In TIE Fighter you had a fixed pool of energy and you could split it up among laser charging, shield charging, and engine velocity. In our game, you have a fixed pool of energy and you can split it up among offensive spells, defensive and protective spells, healing spells, and wielding (and thereby controlling) magic items.

It means that you can interactively switch a mage from being an "offensive" mage to a "buff" mage, instead of having to make a daily (wizard) or a career (sorcerer) commitment to that path as a d20-style mage would.

The other major advantage our mana system gives us is a better approach to managing magic weapons. Rather than rely on D&D style "such-and-such class is the only one who can use this item" and/or a fixed body slot system, the act of equipping magic items requires that you devote some of your mana to control or tap that magic. That way, you don't have to be limited to one ring on each hand "just because we say so": if you have the mana, feel free to load up on rings, but you won't have that mana available for dynamic spellcasting."

So in Broken Hourglass, mage casters can choose how to split their powers between activated buffs, empowering magical items and on-the-fly casting, offering them an interesting series of tactical choices to make. Again, computing power makes managing this complexity a snap and gives the player quick and intuitive feedback on their choices.

This example also illustrates how easy it is to add depth and complexity to something as simple and one-dimensional as a mana-based magic system.

To achieve that greater sense of immersion in magic, some designers have turned to unique spellcasting interfaces. While simply placing spells into slots on your hotkey bar is convenient, it doesn't really invoke any great sense of manipulating strange and powerful mystical forces. Instead of simply presenting the player with a spell from a list, some games present them with a set of 'elements' to manipulate and then let them experiment with those 'elements'. What those 'elements' are vary from game to game.

For example, in the Sir-Tech published 'Druid: Daemons of the Mind' the player had access to a magical amulet. The amulet had 4 standard domains: fire, water, air, earth; combing three domains in a specific order created spells. While it was a simple and hardly memorable way to cast spells, the potential is definitely there, waiting to be explored in techno-magic or steam-punk settings where a man is able to cast a fireball not because he really wants to, but because he's using a clever gadget to manipulate the forces of nature and otherworldly realms.


Probably the most common type of 'magical element' spellcasting system is the use of Runes. Runes operate essentially like a mini-language. Different Runes represent different concepts and the player can experiment with matching different Runes together to form spells. In Ultima Underworld , for example, the player could find the following 24 Runes which they could then combine into 2- and 3-rune spell sequences.

AN - Negate, BET - Small, CORP - Death, DES - Down, EX - Freedom, FLAM - Flame, GRAV - Energy, HUR - Wind, IN - Cause, JUX - Harm, KAL - Summon, LOR - Light, MANI - Life, NOX - Poison, ORT - Magic, POR - Movement, QUAS - Illusion, REL - Change, SANCT - Protection, TYM - Time, UUS - Raise, VAS - Great, WIS - Knowledge, YLEM - Matter.

Combining IN (cause), MANI (life), and YLEM (matter) creates food, whereas combining QUAS (illusion), MANI, and YLEM creates the illusion of a full stomach, dispelling hunger.



Arx Fatalis followed the trend. For instance, combining AAM (create) and YOK (fire) gives the basic Ignite spell, which puts nearby flammable materials on fire.  Adding TAAR (projectile) - AAM YOK TAAR - upgrades the spell to a fireball, while simpler AAM TAAR casts a magic missile equivalent. Arx Fatalis' system gives you an impressive range of spells to work with, from levitation (always a welcome guest in RPGs) to raising walls and enchanting items.


The biggest advantage of such systems is that they encourage experimentation and create a sense that the player themselves is learning the principles of magic as they discover more rune combinations. In other words, they remove the designer as a spell-peddling middleman and let the player interact with the magic system directly.

Arx Fatalis developers didn't stop there and took the idea of Rune casting even further. Arx featured a mouse gesture interface which required the player to trace the Runes themselves on the screen in order to cast them. Though the gesture recognition could be fairly unforgiving and thus frustrating, the system was one of the most immersive representations of spellcasting in a game to date. There was no need to provide artificial reasons why mages preferred to stay out of melee, the difficulty of trying to form those Rune gestures while monsters were doing their best to eviscerate you illustrated the principle perfectly.


3. Acquiring Magical Abilities.

A mage walks into a shop. The shopkeeper says "What can I get you, sir?".
The mage says "I need a spell to defy time and space, to instantly whisk me and 3 of my closest friends to the location of my choosing, anywhere on the planet."
"Ah" says the shopkeeper. "A teleport spell. I've got 5 of those right here, I can give you one for 200 gold, a discount because I like you Academy fellows."
The mage walks out of the shop.

A bit incongruous, no? How can anything be 'magical' when the setting treats it like something mundane, an item for barter in the marketplace, like a turnip? But the modern drive toward greater action has resulted in game designers being loathe to force people to work for their magical abilities. Magic, like swords, must be easy for players to acquire so it doesn't get too much in the way of getting back to fighting monsters.

But we all know that anything not worked for isn't properly appreciated. Ironically, these game developers don't realize that restricting magic would make it that much more satisfying when it is acquired. Consider the moment in KOTOR when you finally built your lightsaber and became a Jedi. By that point, you were gagging for it. When you finally draw forth your lightsaber, accompanied by that iconic thrumming sound, it is a deeply satisfying emotional payoff.

Similarly, in the Ultima games the Avatar needed to locate Rune stones scattered throughout the world. But simply finding these stones wasn't enough to cast spells. The player needed to figure out which combination of Runes would create a spell effect. By embodying the magic system into a simple language, the process of acquiring magical spells was grounded in player experimentation. The emotional payoff for 'creating' a new spell is greater than if the player had simply bought it in a shop.

Even the original Diablo featured this concept. Spells were found in old books, deep inside the Monastery. Wading through hordes of monsters and finding a book whose secrets would teach you a new spell or enhance an existing one was that much more satisfying than it would have been buying them directly from a shop or picking a new ability from a skill tree, because it felt more like finding a rare and hidden treasure than purchasing some new shoes.

Dungeon Master featured a different take on the rune system. You started the game with a full runeset so the focus was not on finding the runes but on experimenting, discovering spells trial-n-error style, and looking for magic items to decode spells that power them - which is a very interesting concept.



The spells were composed of two to four runes. The first rune was the power of the spell, which affected the strength, duration and mana cost. The second rune was the elemental influence, the third rune was the form, and the last rune was the class or alignment. Each rune cost mana points, modified by the selected power. To prevent the abuse that could come with having all the runes right from the start of the game, practice with each spell was required and longer rune sequences required more mana, which grew with skill.

While making the acquisition of magic something the player needs to work for is a good first step, that process should also be tied to the nature of magic itself. Which is why that question needs to be answered first, if you know where magic comes from then it is easier to make the acquisition of magic a more interesting process. The mythologies of the world are filled with interesting stories of how magic users acquire their abilities. Shamans who negotiate with spirit entities, cabals who bind demons to their will. One of the most iconic stories is that of Odin, who gave an eye for wisdom and hung himself on the World Tree to acquire the knowledge of the Runes, potent magic.

In Ultima 8, for example, magic flowed from the Titans. To cast spells of of one of the schools of magic, first the Avatar had to join the faction which controlled that magic. The caretakers of the dead controlled Earth magic, the Cabal of Sorcerors in the mountains practiced fire magic, the students of Air lived in a secluded Monastery. Simply to find and travel to these locations generally required some effort. Once there though, spells weren't simply bought from vendors. The students of Air had to go through a literal leap of faith before acquiring special silver spell foci. To cast Necromantic spells, regents needed to be found and combined using a mystical Key into spell tokens. And Sorcery, the powerful magic of Fire, was the most taxing of all. Mages (and the player) needed to perform complex rituals involving pentacles, positioning of candles and regents and the enchanting of magical foci in order to prepare their magic. Though this kind of effort is too great for the impatient action gamer, it makes the acquisition of magical spells a deeply rewarding and immersive process for the player.

While rune and material systems focus on making the process of spell creation more interesting, other RPGs (most notably the Elder Scrolls games) have attempted to give the player more interesting choices in how their spells act once cast. The spell creator system found in TES games allow the player to customize their spells to their playstyle and needs. Probably the greatest weakness of the TES implementations is how clearly artificial it makes the magic system. Showing sliders for damage, range and potency may be an efficient way to express parameter manipulation, but it sucks the 'magic' out of the arcane, rendering it into a game of min-maxing your numbers instead of immersing yourself in arcane mysteries. Spell creation systems have potential, but work needs to be done to give them a greater sense of theme and context within the mythology of the game setting.


4. The quest for more power.

No sooner did man learn how to cast spell than he started looking for ways to cast more powerful spells...

Dungeons & Dragon games offered a passive "spell stats increase with the Player Character level", which wasn't a very engaging approach. Later it was hot-fixed by Metamagic feats, which allowed you to modify spells, making them hit harder, faster, last longer, etc. The trade off is the increased spell level, which doesn’t really work that great with a slot-based system. For example, a "widened" (double the radius) Fireball will need a spell slot 3 level higher, i.e. a level 6 slot, and will have to compete for limited slots with standard level 6 spells.

In Stonekeep the player could modify spells (runes inscribed on runecasters) with meta runes, adding area affects, increasing duration, and potency.



Game like Dungeon Master and Wizardry allowed players to select the power level they wanted to cast a spell at instead of automatically assigning a power level based on the mage's level. Mages could choose to channel more power into a spell than was safe, at the risk of failure and backlash. Wizardry 8 presented it simply and intuitively to the player as differently coloured circles. Green circles are safe for a given mage to cast, red is dangerous and everything in between involves some measure of risk.


The simplistic Diablo system showed a lot of promise, which was later abandoned in favor of a skill-based system. It fits the "magic is complex and can't be grasped right away just because you copied a spell into your spell book" aspect very well. Exploration has always been one of the strongest aspects of RPGs and the Diablo method is perfect for it as it provides the player with a reason to keep looking for more books/scrolls on the subject of a spell you already have and to be excited when another tome is found.

If done right, different books, scrolls, diaries, and notes can deal with different aspects of the same spell where one book can describe the casting methods, which increase the casting speed, while some arcane lab's research can help you understand how to feed more power into a spell. Think of Deus Ex weapon's upgrades system, where different upgrades could be applied many times, increasing accuracy, clip size, reducing recoil, reload speed, etc.

The "Spiderweb" (Avernum and Geneforge series) system does both "read more books on the subject" and "improve the spell with a trainer", which is a great combo. The former encourages exploration; the latter takes care of your money and gives you a pressing reason to earn more. When it comes to shaping (think summoning creatures that stick around), increasing the shaping skills grants you access to stronger creatures with different abilities.

For example, developing your understanding of Clawbug shaping allows you to create a Plated Clawbug. The clawbug is essentially a big scorpion with venom damage. The plated variety loses the venom but gains 2 extra AP, which gives it an extra attack. It has much higher stats, but it costs twice as much to create (and maintain), which makes it a good alternative, not a superior choice.

Action RPG approach pioneered by Diablo 2 offers a mechanical "spend more points to make a spell more powerful". It's a straightforward method that works best in games where seeing the entire system and planning the right build from the first steps is more important than slowly discovering a magic system and acquiring new spells here and there.


The Ultima rune system shines again, demonstrating the superior flexibility of the language systems. VAS (great) rune handles the demand for more power in an easy and intuitive way.


We can see from these examples that the computer has great potential for immersing the player in spellcasting beyond simple casting bars and mana pools. Interesting interfaces and systems which encourage the player to experiment with magical forces, rather than simply buying spells from a list, result in players becoming more invested in the process of spellcasting and help to truly differentiate the mage player from the fighter or stealthy player. These exploratory systems, combined with an interesting 'mage path' through the game, a path that sees the player negotiating with spirits, learning dangerous and forgotten secrets and interacting with the environment and other characters in unique and interesting ways, have the potential to create a truly memorable mage experience.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 09:08:03 pm by Vince » Logged
Plalito
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2010, 10:24:11 pm »

Good read. Since I haven't played many of these games, it's interesting to see how they incorporated magic. Definitely some interesting implementations.
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micks
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2010, 10:55:09 pm »

Nice article, guys.

I always liked the way magic was handled in Dungeon Master (I remember trying out literally all rune combinations in a vain hunt for the "fireball potion" which was rumoured to exist). Come to think of it, I can still remember most of the spells after all those years.

Another interesting magic system which I can't remember seeing imitated anywhere, was the one used in Loom -- for those who didn't play the game, the Wikipedia article has a decent summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loom_(video_game)#Gameplay. I can't see why something similar couldn't be implemented in a cRPG.
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krainboltgreene
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 07:06:41 am »

You had me up until:

Quote
But we all know that anything not worked for isn't properly appreciated. Ironically, these game developers don't realize that restricting magic would make it that much more satisfying when it is acquired.

At which point I headdesk.

Here's an example:

Taxes. Taxes are annoyingly complex and take quite a while to fill out. There's a lot of work involved, a lot of rules and restrictions.

Example applied:

Adding tax forms to the Monopoly. Not more satisfying.
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Gareth
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 07:19:18 am »

Quote
Here's an example:

Taxes. Taxes are annoyingly complex and take quite a while to fill out. There's a lot of work involved, a lot of rules and restrictions.

Example applied:

Adding tax forms to the Monopoly. Not more satisfying.

Here's a better example :

You run a hard marathon, and win first place. You get a gold medal, all those hours of practice have brought you to this moment and you feel elation.

Later you decide to go to a pawn store and buy yourself a gold medal for another race. Somehow, the feeling isn't quite the same. Wonder why? Because you haven't worked for it and don't really feel any sense of overcoming challenge.

When you've worked hard for something you wanted your emotional payoff is that much higher. Your example fails because you're talking about adding an unreltated chore (not challenging gameplay, something people would prefer to avoid) to a game which already contains challenge. We're talking about the acquisition of something desirable, and how making that effortless reduces the sense of accomplishment when you do.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 07:31:52 am by Gareth » Logged

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krainboltgreene
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 07:48:27 am »

That's a bad example. Like, "today is cold, therefor no global warming" bad.

Just so we're clear, which RPG are you playing where the work required is equal to:

Quote
... hard marathon ... all those hours of practice ...

Once I know the game name I'll know what to never ever play because that much work should never be in or around "fun".
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:00:43 am by krainboltgreene » Logged
Vince
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 07:59:47 am »

Do elaborate, krainboltgreene. Unless you want me to think that you're trolling (or just stupid) and do something about it.

As for my position:

1. It's pretty much a universal fact that what's gained without hard work will never, ever be as appreciated as something gained easily and without effort.

2. Your analogy was, for the lack of a better word, dumb. Filling up tax forms is a chore that's confusing for many people. Hard work it's not. Also, in most cases filling up the forms isn't about gaining anything, but about getting rid of a headache and either handing over some hard earned money or accepting the fact that what you've already paid is gone for good.

3. The example Gareth gave is from Heinlein's Starship Troopers, which is a very good, very clever book (don't confuse with the idiotioc movie).


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krainboltgreene
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 08:05:36 am »

Quote
1. It's pretty much a universal fact that what's gained without hard work will never, ever be as appreciated as something gained easily and without effort.
Quote
It's pretty much a universal fact that what's gained without hard work will never, ever be as appreciated
Quote
universal fact

Man what.

Let me remind you of what a "fact" is:
Quote
A fact is a pragmatic truth, a statement that can, at least in theory, be checked and confirmed. Facts are often contrasted with opinions and beliefs, statements which are held to be true, but are not amenable to pragmatic confirmation.

And then let me point to all the Genius World Record holders who did very little work and had the great satisfaction of being put in the GWRB.

post script: Calling me "dumb" or "troll" doesn't actually make me either.
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erbgor
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 08:25:03 am »

Nice read. I really liked being allowed to "overpower" spells in Wizardry 8, effectively gambling with spells like Fireball or Whipping Rocks.
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Just what is so great and serious about videogames that videogame journalists should be fighters for truth, rather than purely promotional devices for a niche hobby (which is what they were meant to be).?
Vince
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 08:26:33 am »

Quote
1. It's pretty much a universal fact that what's gained without hard work will never, ever be as appreciated as something gained easily and without effort.
Quote
It's pretty much a universal fact that what's gained without hard work will never, ever be as appreciated
Quote
universal fact

Man what.
Reading comprehension problems?

Quote
Let me remind you of what a "fact" is:
"A fact is a pragmatic truth, a statement that can, at least in theory, be checked and confirmed. Facts are often contrasted with opinions and beliefs, statements which are held to be true, but are not amenable to pragmatic confirmation."
It can be verified by anyone who's ever had to work in order to get something, which apparently doesn't include you.

Quote
And then let me point to all the Genius World Record holders who did very little work and had the great satisfaction of being put in the GWRB.
Never heard of it, unless you meant Guinness, in which case, you really are stupid.

Quote
post script: Calling me "dumb" or "troll" doesn't actually make me either.
Your very short posting history does.

First, you show up here to challenge a statement, which is fine, of course, BUT you do it with a retarded analogy that doesn't work because working hard to gain something and filling up tax forms are two very, very different things. Gareth explains his point of view politely and you respond with two sentences: "very bad analogy" and patronizing "please don't talk about things you have no idea about". Later you delete the second sentence later and replace it with "I'll never get your game because games should be fun and hard work isn't fun!!!".

If you're planning on sticking around, I'd suggest putting more efforts into your posts.

Edit:

"Nothing worth gaining was ever gained without effort." T. Roosevelt

From Heinlein:

""Wrong," he said coldly. " 'Value' has no meaning other than in relation to living beings. The value of a thing is always relative to a particular person, is completely personal and different in quantity for each living human — 'market value' is a fiction, merely a rough guess at the average of personal values, all of which must be quantitatively different or trade would be impossible." (I had wondered what Father would have said if he had heard "market value" called a "fiction" — snort in disgust, probably.)

"This very personal relationship, 'value,' has two factors for a human being: first, what he can do with a thing, its use to him . . . and second, what he must do to get it, its cost to him. There is an old song which asserts that 'the best things in life are free.' Not true! Utterly false! This was the tragic fallacy which brought on the decadence and collapse of the democracies of the twentieth century; those noble experiments failed because the people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted . . . and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears.

"Nothing of value is free. Even the breath of life is purchased at birth only through gasping effort and pain." He had been still looking at me and added, "If you boys and girls had to sweat for your toys the way a newly born baby has to struggle to live you would be happier . . . and much richer. As it is, with some of you, I pity the poverty of your wealth. You! I've just awarded you the prize for the hundred-meter dash. Does it make you happy?"

"Uh, I suppose it would."

"No dodging, please. You have the prize — here, I'll write it out: 'Grand prize for the championship, one hundred-meter sprint.' " He had actually come back to my seat and pinned it on my chest. "There! Are you happy? You value it — or don't you?"

I was sore. First that dirty crack about rich kids — a typical sneer of those who haven't got it — and now this farce. I ripped it off and chucked it at him.

Mr. Dubois had looked surprised. "It doesn't make you happy?"

"You know darn well I placed fourth!"

"Exactly! The prize for first place is worthless to you . . . because you haven't earned it. But you enjoy a modest satisfaction in placing fourth; you earned it. I trust that some of the somnambulists here understood this little morality play. I fancy that the poet who wrote that song meant to imply that the best things in life must be purchased other than with money — which is true — just as the literal meaning of his words is false. The best things in life are beyond money; their price is agony and sweat and devotion . . . and the price demanded for the most precious of all things in life is life itself — ultimate cost for perfect value."
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:37:43 am by Vince » Logged
Hector
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 09:59:22 am »

Besides the above, hard work can be fun, if you enjoy the work in question.  If you enjoy playing checkers, that's great; I'm glad for you.  Just please don't try to stop those of us who enjoy chess from doing so on the grounds that it requires work to actually be any good at it.
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For once we get a game with evil options that let you play malevolent character not just an obnoxious cunt. Happy times.

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Alizar
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 10:05:08 am »

Excellent overview! I think that many developers should read it as it's a very good reference material.
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caster
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 10:49:05 am »

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1. The Nature of Magic.

This would seem to be the most fundamental of questions, but many RPGs simply gloss over it. "Magic is a mysterious energy which can do anything, thus it can be used to justify anything we want to throw in the game, hooray!". The problem with this approach is that unlimited freedom isn't necessarily desirable. Writers and designers know that sometimes the most interesting ideas arise from imposed constraints. Compare two classic Pen and Paper RPG settings :

The Forgotten Realms: In this setting magic is everywhere and can do anything and everything. While magic is spectacular, it feels fairly generic.

Dark Sun: In this setting, magic is drawn from the life force of living things. Conscientious Preserver mages must work to ensue they take no more than their environment can support.
Definitely, you are right here. Magic should be treated as something rare, hard to get or control and use in order to make it seem "special" which after all is one of its main purposes.

humans are intrigued by concept of magic just because it isn't readily available in reality.
And the things you could do with it are always of some kind of impressive feats.

If you make magic cheap and easily available you cheapen everything you do with it - not to mention introduce huge inconsistencies and just stupidities - like your example with buying teleport spell shows.

I encounter the same thing in what most people consider Science fiction these days. There "science" is just another word for magic - something that allows you to do cool things with very little or no cost at all.
The "its the fiction part thats important really" or "its future! who knows what will be possible with adequately advanced mag... i mean science", crap ensues most often.

I dont mean to drag this discussion into this but i wanted to show the parallel.
And its annoying to me as much as cheap magic to you guys, probably even more.

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2. The Evolution of Spellcasting
To me its clear that the manner of spellcasting is tightly connected to the point one - The nature of magic.
Plus the fact that every one of these systems tries to add some sort of restriction upon the mage. Be it the need to sleep and recover spells or mana or limited number of spells you can effectively use per day.

All of these so far had unintentional consequences to them, like sleeping in between every fight (because nobody thought to limit that) or just having gazillion mana potions on you.

Both fail because there is no price on the magic wielder himself. Either on his body or his mind.
Which brings us back to the "Nature of magic" thingie.


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3. Acquiring Magical Abilities.
Yes. this needs to be hard to do and therefore rewarding.
Additionally every system that lets the player fiddle around with "strange unhuman forces" himself is a step up from systems that have predetermined, static, fixed spells.
Magic should always be something wild - at least partially - not something that is converted to tidy exact spells with always the same effect. We are not living in the mechanical universe of Sir Isaac Newton anymore and even if he could kick all of our asses if he was around he would be first to agree with the new order of things and deeper insights.

You make magic to tidy and exact - you loose the thing that makes it "magical".

Chaos theory teaches us that everything isnt just a chaotic jumble but that there are patterns within and that effects of natural forces have permutations to them and that they are never exactly the same. (thats not all it teaches but this part of it applies here the most)

And yes, it does matter in "acquiring abilities" because this basic assumption influences how exactly are you going to acquire them and how will you use them.


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4. The quest for more power.

Dungeons & Dragon games offered a passive "spell stats increase with the Player Character level", which wasn't a very engaging approach. Later it was hot-fixed by Metamagic feats, which allowed you to modify spells, making them hit harder, faster, last longer, etc. The trade off is the increased spell level, which doesn’t really work that great with a slot-based system. For example, a "widened" (double the radius) Fireball will need a spell slot 3 level higher, i.e. a level 6 slot, and will have to compete for limited slots with standard level 6 spells.

In Stonekeep the player could modify spells (runes inscribed on runecasters) with meta runes, adding area affects, increasing duration, and potency.

You forgot the Morowind system of sliders where the player could effectively make his own spells.
that to me is the most interesting and engaging one though, of course, poorly executed in Morowind.

With the addition of adding some kind of price for each enhancement or increase in energy/damage/duration/whatever and the need to seek out knowledge about different kinds of spells in many different ways - that would rule.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 10:53:06 am by caster » Logged

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Vince
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2010, 11:09:11 am »

You forgot the Morowind system of sliders where the player could effectively make his own spells.
that to me is the most interesting and engaging one though, of course, poorly executed in Morowind.
"While rune and material systems focus on making the process of spell creation more interesting, other RPGs (most notably the Elder Scrolls games) have attempted to give the player more interesting choices in how their spells act once cast. The spell creator system found in TES games allow the player to customize their spells to their playstyle and needs. Probably the greatest weakness of the TES implementations is how clearly artificial it makes the magic system. Showing sliders for damage, range and potency may be an efficient way to express parameter manipulation, but it sucks the 'magic' out of the arcane, rendering it into a game of min-maxing your numbers instead of immersing yourself in arcane mysteries. Spell creation systems have potential, but work needs to be done to give them a greater sense of theme and context within the mythology of the game setting."



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caster
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 11:11:01 am »

How did i miss that...? Well, alright then, just take the part that works.
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I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! - Albert Einstein


The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.
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