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Author Topic: Proper SF: Greg Egan works  (Read 970 times)
caster
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« on: September 08, 2009, 05:59:36 AM »

Greg Egan is one of the newer writers in the field of revamped new hard science fiction.
For his short story "Wangs Carpets" - which is a part of novel "Diaspora", Gardner Dozois (writer and editor of very good and already a bit famous collections of best short stories in SF) says it changed how other SF writers think about the future and science fiction.

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The novel began as a short story entitled "Wang's Carpets" which originally appeared in New Legends, a collection of short stories edited by Greg Bear (Legend, London, 1995). Egan later adapted and included "Wang's Carpets" as a chapter in the novel.



Diaspora :



It -  begins with a description of "orphanogenesis", the birthing of a citizen without any ancestors (most citizens descend from fleshers uploaded at some point), and the subsequent upbringing of the newborn Yatima within Konishi polis. Yatima matures within a few real-time days, because citizens' subjective time runs about 800 times as rapidly as flesher and gleisner time. Early on, Yatima and a friend, Inoshiro, use abandoned gleisner bodies to visit a Bridger colony near the ruins of Atlanta on Earth.

Years later, the gleisner Karpal, using a gravitational-wave detector, determines that a binary neutron star system in the constellation of Lacerta has collapsed, releasing a huge burst of energy. Previous predictions portrayed the system's stable orbit as likely to last for another seven million years. By analysing irregularities in the orbit, Karpal discovers that the devastating burst of energy will reach Earth within the next four days.


-taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_%28novel%29-
but be careful about reading there because its full of spoilers.


And so humanity splits and great Diaspora begins. Most of humans who were digital split into their own Polises and spread through the neighboring stars, many containing multiple copies of main characters.

Polises are never fully explained as to how they look but they seem to be something close to asteroid sized hardware able to maintain thousands of full copies of digital humans, produce new ones completely by itself and has almost unlimited ability to manipulate matter (nano assembler levels) to produce any kind of clone bodies from its reserves of tissue and genetic material data, or create and manufacture any kind of robotic or space vehicle necessary for particular mission.
Virtual reality of any kind, depth and sensory believability is fully available. So much so that the main philosophical split between citizens (and whole Polises) is whether reality matters or there is no difference between virtual and physical.

the citizens[2], intelligence as disembodied computer software running entirely within simulated reality-based communities known as polises.[3] These represent the majority by far of "humanity" in the novel, followed in a distant second place by the gleisners. Together with vast networks of sensors, probes, drones and satellites, they collectively make up the Coalition of Polises, the backbone and bulk of human civilisation


In further story we follow one of them more then others, one which first discovers organic life on one of the first planets they found, a watery world covered in kilometers of oceans and the only life there, recorded from afar with distant probes, are huge organic beings that look like thick carpets, just drifting in the currents in the Oceans, slowly getting bigger then dividing into new ones.
No other life whatsoever.

One of the characters realizes when examining their structure that they follow an old mathematical... theorem, on their molecular structure level and below, when they are growing and dividing. A theorem of old earth mathematician Hao Wang ... so the "decided" to call them Wangs carpets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_tile

And send nano probes into the oceans to map the carpets little deeper.



But that's just the first stop in whole Diaspora, and the search doesn't stop in this universe either, it goes up through the higher metauniverses by order of how many physical dimensions they have in their reality.
They found other life in first few universes with six and seven dimensions but not the answer they were after.

All along they were actually following, searching  for some old advanced race that left rare bits of its technologies scattered through universes... sometimes the only clue would be a planet made entirely of some impossible isotopes of atoms. One little planet in that whole universe. Just left there.
So they follow upward and... man...  there is some wicked writing there, in nine dimensions and above universes.
Wicked, let me tell ya.


Overall though, first part of the book can be a little slow and demanding of the reader because of numerous hard science terminology and mathematical explanations of certain important events, which can go into some detail. But, its possible to follow the plot even without two or three mathematical encyclopedias by your side.
That level of demand for knowledge from readers side is lessened a little  in "other" part of the story.

Dont let that deter you. The story itself  is amazing.

When Diaspora itself begins and they leave earth things pick up... and then keep on picking up - until the end in a rather... impressive trajectory.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 03:50:14 PM by caster » Logged

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galsiah
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 04:17:03 PM »

Thanks for this post. I just read Diaspora, and it is a great book. It's very impressive how he's able to construct so much interesting stuff while remaining consistent (or extremely close) with real-world physics. Of course the whole polises bit can just ignore physics, but that's very interesting in its own right - largely because it's essentially independent of physicality (whatever those C-Zists would have you believe).

I don't think most people should be put off by the mathematics - if they like hard SF in the first place. It's almost exclusively concerned with pictures/concepts/topology rather than axioms/algebra/equations or similar. I guess it's easier going if you're familiar with some of the concepts already, but most of it's approachable and interesting (so long as you know what a torus is).

I'll certainly be reading a lot more of his stuff when I find the time.
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caster
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 02:03:02 PM »

Hey, alright i got one at least Smile

You raise a good point there. I think that "hard SF" is trying to closely investigate and represent the wonder of our own reality more then just invent a fantastic scape and therein lies its strength.

Coupled with the fact that mathematics and science itself are actually secondary thing in it and concepts and ideas the first it can create some truly wonderful "images".

I liked the idea behind those Wang carpets a lot.
Idea worthy of a whole book itself, but here its just one of many chapters.
The whole Diaspora in its entirety as described in the book is entertaining and a little bit challenging concept in itself.. and i just love these rare books that surprise you just by quantity of excellent and interesting stuff they keep piling up like they will never run out of accelerATION MASS Grin

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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 10:53:48 AM »

I don't read a lot of sci-fi, but I'll add it to the Master List, mostly because he has the same last name as Jennifer Egan.
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caster
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 10:59:49 AM »

Any reason will do even that one rather then doing it because i put so much effort in making a post about it.
Let me know how you liked it after youre done.
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 08:50:37 PM »

I've read 4 of Greg Egan's short stories and most of the book called Quarantine. He has good stylistics, but rather boring outlook on things (you know, science fiction things). He also belongs to the group those SF writers who go on and on about some (fictional) concept, not caring in the slightest that the resulting narrative is effectively meaningless, because the concept is too abstract and involves too much guesswork. Frankly, I don't care about the intricacies of life without wave function collapse, because we do have wave function collapse, and because that life is not likely to work the way the author describes anyway.

Good fiction should somehow connect with reality. Using the "correct" physics is not enough to do so. The author has to have something interesting and meaningful to say about reality as well, and a lot of modern SF fails to do that, badly.
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 02:44:40 AM »

Reading four short stories and a part of a book then proclaiming that narrative is meaningless and that "modern science fiction" fails to say something interesting and meaningful about reality is just.... something i have no time nor energy to even think about let alone reply in some kind manner.
And its more a reaction to my posts and thoughts about science fiction in other threads then anything else.


Completely worthless and generalizing post.
This is a thread about one particular book and if you didnt read it  - it makes no sense to give such wild blanket statements at all.



-just for the record there are several short stories from Greg Egan i read and didnt like.

-edited for surge of rage-
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 10:06:24 AM by caster » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 10:08:11 PM »

Quote from: caster
Reading four short stories and a part of a book then proclaiming that narrative is meaningless and that "modern science fiction" fails to say something interesting and meaningful about reality is just
I did not say that the conclusion is based solely on reading those four short stories and a part (around  90%, really) of  Quarantine. Neither did I say that all modern SF fails to say something interesting. But a lot of it does. Authors race with one another into the unknown, not caring about exploring anything on their way. They pile up one "what if" scenario upon the other, so that the resulting worlds have much less in common with reality than even fantasy. But worst of all, they don't describe any interesting situations. And by interesting I mean situations that give you something to think about without relying on the novelty factor as the only device for capturing your attention.

Quote
This is a thread about one particular book and if you didnt read it  - it makes no sense to give such wild blanket statements at all.
It is titled "Greg Egan works", and my post is about Greg Egan works. Did you read Quarantine? Are you saying Diaspora is different?
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 03:11:34 AM »

Blah bla blah
Sturgeon law my friend.

It is titled "Greg Egan works", -  really? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Salute

Didnt read quarantine.
I would say Diaspora is different yes. Im quite sure he didnt fool someone and published the same book under a different title.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 11:13:59 PM by caster » Logged

I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! - Albert Einstein


The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.
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