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Author Topic: Native Linux battles  (Read 8318 times)
MaximB
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« on: December 27, 2009, 02:23:15 AM »

As I'm at work now (and can't play at work) , how does AoD Combat Demo runs in Wine ?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 09:51:48 AM by Oscar » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2009, 02:26:59 AM »

From what I heard, it works pretty well.
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"Hasta la victoria, siempre."

"Who has time? But then if we do not ever take time, how can we ever have it?"
MaximB
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 03:27:26 AM »

From what I heard, it works pretty well.

But don't let it confuse you - a NATIVE Linux client is still needed.
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Gregorus Prime
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2009, 07:58:48 AM »

You never shut up about Linux. Let them finish the fucking game first before they have to start worrying about catering to all the damn communists!  Commie
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MaximB
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2009, 08:20:00 AM »

You never shut up about Linux. Let them finish the fucking game first before they have to start worrying about catering to all the damn communists!  Commie

Nice smile Wink
I won't go to the subject about Linux and communism (believe me you don't want to go there), but generally speaking - when companies develop to the 3 OS's (Windows, MacOS and Linux) from the start - the product is much more stable and less buggy (conclusion from the many interviews I did and read).

 
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Gregorus Prime
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2009, 09:00:56 AM »

Again with this filthy communist rhetoric! I won't stand for it!

Also, when they try to develop for three platforms at once (which just usually costs them money in the big picture) it takes longer. As far as priorities go, Linux is way at the bottom for an indie team like this. Partly because nobody uses it, but also partly because you already have like fourteen Windows emulators out there to choose from for shit like this, and also because anyone who can use Linux comfortably can also pirate Windows and partition their hard drive comfortably.
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MacAnkka
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2009, 09:21:45 AM »

Wine is never the perfect solution. And neither is dual booting (especially if there is piracy involved).

Besides, realeasing a native linux version would certainly get noticed in various linux circles. There are so few good games (esp. rpgs) released for Linux.

What about making a new thread for linux-related stuff?
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Oscar
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2009, 09:25:11 AM »

What about making a new thread for linux-related stuff?

:gregorius prime gets heart attack: lol
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"Hasta la victoria, siempre."

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MaximB
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2009, 09:31:25 AM »

Again with this filthy communist rhetoric! I won't stand for it!

Also, when they try to develop for three platforms at once (which just usually costs them money in the big picture) it takes longer. As far as priorities go, Linux is way at the bottom for an indie team like this. Partly because nobody uses it, but also partly because you already have like fourteen Windows emulators out there to choose from for shit like this, and also because anyone who can use Linux comfortably can also pirate Windows and partition their hard drive comfortably.


Should I open a new thread ? it's going to be a very long discussion.

Linux users are not pirates, we don't use Windows not because it costs money - but because Linux is better in our opinion.
Most Linux users actually make some good money and can afford to pay for a Windows license - and we do pay for native Linux games.

As you may know I am the editor of the Linux Gaming News Blog.
I've interviewed a lot of game developers and I know the business.
From Interview With Koen From Koonsolo : http://lgn.linux-hardcore.com/interview-with-koen-from-koonsolo/

"4. Many game developers complain that it is very problematic to port games to GNU/Linux and yet your game “just run” on the 3 OS’s without extra effort.
How is that possible ? what do you advice other game developers to do so their games will be “multi platform” “out of the box” ?


Those developers got themselves in that situation. If you start developing your game using OS specific code/libraries, of course it’s a big effort to port your game. If you make sure from the start that you are not doing anything platform specific, and use libraries that support multiple platforms, it takes no extra effort. And I’m not only talking only about pygame here. The previous game I developed was Rabbit Wars (which was a project for an external company). It’s developed in C++ and uses the same codebase for PocketPC, Smartphone and Windows. Linux support was not required, but it would probably take me a day to get it running on Linux, since I use SDL as my main library, and try to stay far away from any Microsoft libraries Wink . The same could apply for 3D games of course.

My advice for competing game developers? Keep buying expensive, Windows specific engines/libraries. Focus on Windows only, and stay away from Open Source software. If it’s free, it can’t be good, right? Because in the end you will get what you pay for… . No, seriously, if you’re smart, you will do the exact opposite of what I’ve just said, but who listens to me anyway?"



5. I’m wondering about MM sales per platform vs platform market share.
I assume you can’t give us actual numbers (for some unknown reason) but percentage wise how much GNU/Linux, Mac and Windows sales went ? Is there indeed a market for GNU/Linux games ?


As you know I’m an indie game developer, so you can’t really compare my numbers against some best selling AAA games. But I’ve just checked my direct sales (those I get from my website), and I’m selling equally well on all 3 platforms. Mac OS X is at the top, then comes Linux, and finally Windows, but it’s a close one, because Windows represents 1/4th of my sales. So there is definitely a market for Linux games if you’re an indie developer, and quite honestly, you must be stupid not to support all 3 platforms, because as stated above, it just doesn’t take any extra effort.


Recently I took an interview from the indie developers Frictional Games who developed the Penumbra Trilogy and now working on Amnesia : http://lgn.linux-hardcore.com/interview-with-frictional-games-amnesia/



1. Hello Jens and thank you for the interview,
There is a question I ask every commercial game company that already released their previous games to GNU/Linux,  I wonder how where the overall sales of the Penumbra Trilogy per platform ? from the “Thank You” post I feel that there is indeed a market for GNU/Linux, but can you be more specific (at least percentage wise for each game and the trilogy pack)  ?


It’s a bit difficult to give any exact numbers, mainly because for Windows we have a publisher and they in turn use many partners, so even if we get sales figures they are not always detailed down to a unit level for all territories. To make matters worse the first publisher we had for the original Penumbra: Overture release where pretty much a scam and never sent any sales figures at all, so we have only a slight idea of how well that game sold.

I did my best to collect as many figures as I could for online sales of the game for Linux, Mac & Windows. To give some background, the only place to purchase Linux is through our online store, the Mac version is available in our store + 3 other online stores and the Windows version is available in our store (recently added) + all the major stores (Steam, D2D, Gamer’s Gate, etc). I could not get all the figures for the Windows version, it also further weakens the figures that the Windows version is available in retail and that it has had backup by publishers. So it has had a lot of marketing that the other platforms have not had.

Here are the percentage for each platform, based on the total sales of all the games (individual and as the Collection):

Windows: 80%
Linux: 12%
Mac: 8%

A large part of the Linux percentage is thanks to the “Thank You” post you mentioned, that the article it mentions and its readers are what we thank in it for purchasing a lot of copies during the USD 5 weekend sale.

I wish this was all very positive, but in reality our games do not do that well. The only reason the company exists is because we live on what the treasure chest has to offer! So while the Thank You post is obviously a big thanks (it is!), it’s more that it bought us some more time, at a time when we really needed it badly.

We sold 3000 copies for Linux during that weekend, which is a GREAT number of units to sell during a weekend, but for a price of USD 5, you get about USD 13 000 to put in the chest. We are five people in the company and we also have a great guy making the Linux port, so with that in mind you don’t get that many days extra to live on. Here in Sweden the tax rate is above 30% and the employer fee above 30% too, so to put say USD 1 000 in your pocket to buy food for it will cost the company around USD 1 800. That does not include the additional 12% of VAT you have to pay for the actual food! Haha.

There I went on a long trip… It was not to nag about the poor state of being an independent game developer, it is great to be part of a small company that can quite freely work on the type of games we want. But it does have some parts that are a bit of a strain on the creativity.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I could give you a lot of other examples that Linux users BUY Native Linux games...
« Last Edit: December 27, 2009, 09:33:30 AM by MaximB » Logged
sakuramboo
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2009, 10:18:47 AM »

Giving my vote for a Linux port.

I gotta also add to MaximB's post with two blog posts. One is from 2D Boy (The developers of World of Goo) and one from Wolfire (The developers of Lugaru).

http://2dboy.com/2009/10/26/pay-what-you-want-birthday-sale-wrap-up/

The gist: Linux users are willing to pay more for the same product than Windows users.

http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/why-you-should-support-mac-os-x-and-linux/

The gist: MacOS and Linux made up 50% of their sales. Even though Linux made up 5%, to support it is trivial when there is a MacOS port.

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Melcar
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2009, 12:57:51 PM »

Going to bug you both on The Codex and here for a Linux client VD.  Sorry, but Tux wills it.  Since I really want to support this game with my ill gotten monies, I'm willing to buy the Linux port of the game (which would make it my first game purchase in 3 years), and since no one offers torrents for Linux games (weird no?) I have no choice but to buy it.  If there is only a Windows binary, then it will be not removed from inventory; I don't use Windows so why purchase a game that may or may not work well on WINE?  Just don't charge an arm and a leg; us Linux guys are poor you know  Smile.
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Bah! No Linux client and it doesn't work on Wine. Pfft. Losers.
Licaon_Kter
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2009, 01:36:44 PM »

i'll add my experience here:
-the Demo works great in WINE
-the OpenGL renderer works while the D3D one does not ( not even on Windows 7 )
-in WINE the OpenGL renderer is faster than on Windows  Huh?

Salute ITS
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MacAnkka
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2009, 02:48:23 PM »

-in WINE the OpenGL renderer is faster than on Windows  Huh?
I noticed that, too.

Nice sig, by the way  Grin
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Gregorus Prime
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2009, 03:46:20 PM »

Linux users are not pirates, we don't use Windows not because it costs money - but because Linux is better in our opinion.

Alright, in all seriousness I'm just messing with you and I don't really think Linux users are communists (although far too many are insufferable faggots who scoff at anyone who really has no problem with Windows), but everyone I know who uses Linux pirates music/movies like there's no goddamn tomorrow. Then again, so does everyone I know who can find their way around an operating system. Shit's easy and sometimes you don't want to pay the 35 bucks for a blu-ray disk since you already spent all your money on the giant HDTV you didn't need in the first place.

Doesn't change the fact that ITS is just packed to the gills with communist subversives. I've got my eye on you, Nick. And don't think you're off the hook either, Oscar. You can tell Comrade Vince I'm on to him as well.
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Licaon_Kter
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2009, 05:37:52 PM »

Nice sig, by the way  Grin
10Q comrade, sit, join us, have a cold one  Salute
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