[Gareth]

@ Vince : No, no, not gangster enough. Let me write it in a "Vince" voice.

Writing - The Coral - As written by Gareth, writing as Vince, writing as Gareth :

***

"Fucking call or fold, Hobbe, I'm fucking bored. Get Lann to help you count your fucking score, if you’re having fucking trouble?"

The man the others called ‘Grinning’ Hobbe scowled at his cards, ignoring the jibe as his lips moved in silent calculation. He reached one large hand to his cheek, idly stroking the ugly ridges of scar tissue that ran from the remains of his left ear down across his mouth and chin, twisting his lips into the expression that gave him his nickname. His eyes flicked up to his smirking opponent.

"Think yourself so fucking clever, eh, Mars? Mark my fucking words, one day someone will fucking rip your fucking tongue out and fucking feed it to you."

At hearing his barb strike home Marsuvial’s grin widened further, teeth white against tanned skin. Pushing his fine blonde hair back from his face, he glanced down the table at Lannister, to see if the older man shared his mirth. Lann’s weathered visage was set in his usual expression, that of a man who’d swallowed something particularly foul. Lann’s face seemed to have decided at a young age that it favored the expression and had held to it ever since, no one could recall ever seeing the man smile. Lann met Marsuvial’s gaze and snorted, he had little patience for Mars’ games, especially now that Mars had taken all of his money. Laughing, Marsuvial turned back to Hobbe.

"Do I sense some fucking resentment, Hobbe? I understand it must be fucking hard for you to fucking sit next to me without feeling the fucking burden of your fucking ignorance and low upbringing, but why are you fucking blaming me for that? Blame that mangy fucking whore who decided to keep you as a fucking pet instead of fucking strangling you."

Unlike every other Hand, Marsuvial was a man of noble birth. He had always been a wild one, a thrill-seeker and hellion, even more so than was usual for bored sons of minor nobility. But there was a limit, even for the noble class, and Mars had ever been one for pushing boundaries. When word spread through the gossip circles of Korrinport that he was running with the notorious Red Knives street gang, it had proven too much of a disgrace for his family. They’d disowned him, cut him off publicly and completely.

Mars said he’d found the whole incident amusing, reveling in the embarrassment he’d caused his parents. He’d long since embraced the lifestyle of the criminal underworld. With his quick wits and daring he’d thrived in it, hardly wanting for any of the luxuries of his previous lifestyle. He’d be leading the Red Knives by now if Jhendal and his Hands hadn’t eliminated or absorbed their competition when they’d arrived in Korrinport. Ever quick to notice the changing of the winds, Marsuvial had abandoned his fellows and joined the Hands with little hesitation. Most of the Knives had taken the opposite path, chosen to fight for their territory. And ended up floating face-down in the harbor.

Mars’ display of disloyalty might have hindered his prospects in another profession, but there were few illusions amongst criminals, to expect your peers to be motivated by anything more than self interest was naïve, dangerously so. The trick was to make sure that it was in their best interests not to turn on you.

Jhendal was a practical leader; he didn't waste potential resources. For all of Marsuvial’s faults, incompetence wasn’t one of them. He had to be reined in at times, but he never failed to get the job done, quickly and efficiently. In a handful of years he’d climbed the ranks of the Hands and was now counted amongst Jhendal’s lieutenants.

Ignoring Mars, Hobbe examined his stack of coins, keeping his hand close to his chest. Not a particularly skilled player, he’d stayed in the game this long thanks to a few lucky hands and the fact that Lann and Mars had been concentrating on countering each other. But Lann had risked his all on cards that should have won, would have won, had Mars not had the single hand that could beat them. With a curse the older man had declared himself done for the night, retiring from the game to watch it play out and drink that bitter Koethan ale he favored. Mars had then proceeded to whittle down Hobbe’s pile of coins, smirking as he watched the big man sweat and curse under the pressure. Hobbe was down to less than a third of what he’d started with, too little now to raise Marsuvial’s bet. With a snarl he pushed his coins into the centre of the table.

"Let's fucking see them."

Expression carefully blank, Mars slowly placed his cards on the table, while Lann sighed and shook his head over his tankard. Towers, Mars had 3 Tower cards, beating Hobbe’s pair of High Priests easily. The bigger man snarled his frustration as Mars stood and, with exaggerated motions, swept the rest of Hobbe’s coins into his pile.

"Motherfucker! You’re a fucking cheat, Mars!"

Laughing again, Mars sat, drained the rest of his ale then leaned back so that his stool balanced on its hind legs. As he did so he turned his head, eyes tracking the passage of their young waitress as she passed their table. Somewhat harried looking, but attractive nevertheless, just come into the full bloom of womanhood. Without turning back to Hobbe he replied “Ah, but that’s a valuable lesson right there, my friend. If you’re going to play in a rigged game, make damn sure you’re a better cheat than they are. Consider your coins fair payment for the lesson, aye?”

"Valuable fucking lesson?" Something in Hobbe's voice wiped the smile off Mars' face. He opened his mouth and quickly shut it again. Hobbe was the Hands’ primary enforcer, he wasn’t particularly sharp of wit but he had a talent for blades. But Hobbe was a super badass, so badass that even the second-in-command of the guild would think twice about crossing him. The man could take on a legion and never slept, that's how badass he was. If it were anyone else, he would have been choking on his own blood already, but Hobbe was a special case, what with being so badass, and required a special treatment. Then again, nobody but a super badass would be stupid enough to challenge Mars so openly. Hobbe was either truly slow-witted or ... . The alternative made Mars uncomfortable. (Mars didn't realise that soon he would be meeting the super-badass player character, who could also backchat him without consequence, because he was equally badass.)

"Sometimes I forget that peasants don't have any class and simply can't lose gracefully. It comes from being so distastefully poor, I suppose. There is no need to get so upset, Hobbe. Of course, you can keep your money. Why don't I run to the store and fetch your groceries, too? Would you like to fuck me up the ass, while you're at it? I'm so intimidated by you, because of how dangerous a single man is to someone so high up in the leadership structure of the guild, I will treat you with kid gloves. Lets hope that when the PC comes along, he hasn't invested in high weapon skills, because then all the power, numbers and influence at our command will be like nothing to such a super badass. Can you imagine how artificial that would seem, a single man taking an entire guild? Woo, me neither."

Hobbe grinned and cut the pile of coins in half with a knife he kept out of sight until now. "For the fucking lesson, aye?", he gestured with his knife at the other half of the coins, grinning again. Marsuvial cursed, pocketed the money, and stormed out, crying, helplessly, almost knocking the quickly forgotten young waitress to the floor. When Hobbe stepped outside, Mars had already rolled some tobacco into a short, thick blunt and was working on coaxing it to crimson life, clenching the blunt between his teeth. In a gesture of deference, he offered Hobbe the badass the first puff.

Discarding a match, he then inhaled slowly, drawing tobacco smoke deep into his lungs, then turned and stared along the wharf at the colored lanterns strung around the Summer Breeze, Jhendal’s ship. The sounds of laughter and music could be heard on the wind, Jhendal was hosting another of his parties. Ignoring all this, Hobbe walked to the edge of the wharf, unlaced his trousers and, with a groan of relief, began urinating into the murky waters below. Without stopping, he called back over his shoulder “What now, Mars? Don't tell me you fucking dragged me out tonight just to play some fucking cards. If you did I'm going to fucking beat you fucking senseless. Because I'm super badass and frightened of no one."

Marsuvial’s gaze lingered on the Breeze for another moment before he turned and looked at his companion. “We’ve got some business to take care of in the city. Jhendal’s orders, we’re to do it while they’re all at his party. Come on, let’s be quick about it.”

"You're the fucking boss man, master Mars." Master Mars didn't have to see in the dark to know that Hobbe was grinning again. "One day, Hobbe. One day", he said quietly, tears welling in the corner of his eyes, before flicking his half-smoked blunt to the cobbles. The blunt reminded Mars of his skateboard, which he'd left back at his mom's flat and would soon ride around the skate park, before going out and spraying graffiti on walls. West side gangsters foreva', yo.

***

Truly, epic.

Blunt doesnt create any neurological sidetrack slips.

Yes it does. It's modern, urban slang. Absolutely no modern slang will be tolerated. I'd rather make shit up.

Gareth, i hope you dont mind some criticism...

I don't.

You have these two guys here in this scene. And one of them should be this rogue like charming villain and the other rough and tough grumpy and cunning bastard.

Their actions consist of  playing cards, some bantering, smoking a blunt of rolled tobacco and pissing in the river.

There is no action which shows them as characters they are supposed to be. You are basically telling us what they're like but not showing it at all.

Mmm. I'm showing Mars mannerisms, which do a lot to show his character. I am showing you, just not in the way you think.

[Wrath of Dagon]

You guys ought to highlight the changes, so I don't have to read the whole thing over.

I didn't even know blunt was modern slang, how about stogie? Also it would be more authentic if they lighted cigarettes from an oil lamp or something, it was really hard to start a fire before friction matches were invented in the 19th century. Also I'm pretty sure "party" is a modern word in the sense it's used here.

[Gareth]

I didn't even know blunt was modern slang, how about stogie?

If I was writing a story about 1950s detectives and gangsters, I'd use the word stogie. In between scenes of shoot-outs with tommy guns. Otherwise, nope.

Also it would be more authentic if they lighted cigarettes from an oil lamp or something, it was really hard to start a fire before friction matches were invented in the 19th century.

Alchemical matches exist in the setting.

Also I'm pretty sure "party" is a modern word in the sense it's used here.

Doesn't matter, doesn't have the same modern ring to it.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It does to me. Stogie is a 19th century term by the way, because that's what Conestoga wagon drivers used to smoke.

[Gareth]

It does to me. Stogie is a 19th century term by the way, because that's what Conestoga wagon drivers used to smoke.

I know. But I don't think people quite grasp this "word context" concept.

It doesn't matter when the word was developed or how old it is. What matters is how it fits into an average modern reader's mental framework. Because this influences the "feel" of the writing when they read it. That framework is developed in the modern era, influenced by popular media, not actual historical fact. Writing "stogie" is going to trigger all the memories of the other places people have heard that word, which are almost all from 50s style movies.

Very few people are going to go check on wikipedia to find out the actual origin of the word. It doesn't bloody matter what the origin is, all that matters is how it is going to sound to the average reader. Stogie isn't commonly used in modern language, but it doesn't fit in a time period before the 1900s. It sounds 1950s.

We all have these built up mental frameworks. Some words and phrases sound like they "fit" in a Western, some in an ancient era, some in the ghetto. Some words/phrases are so generic, so neutral, that nobody picks up on them.

Doesn't matter what the actual origins of those words are, you have to write with an understanding of what your reader will perceive.

[Wrath of Dagon]

People are going to perceive words differently, depending on their background and level of historical knowledge.  Are you basing your world on any particular time period, or is it only the 20th and 21st centuries that are off limits?

[Gareth]

People are going to perceive words differently, depending on their background and level of historical knowledge.  Are you basing your world on any particular time period, or is it only the 20th and 21st centuries that are off limits?

Of course their will be differences, but there is still a common average, which is where the majority of people will sit in their perceptions. That common average = a basic level of historical education + popular media influence.

There is no way stogie or blunt would work, the mass consciousness recognises them as associated with particular time periods.

Time period is a slightly more advanced version of the standard fantasy era.

[Wrath of Dagon]

There is no way stogie or blunt would work, the mass consciousness recognises them as associated with particular time periods.

Time period is a slightly more advanced version of the standard fantasy era.

Well, that makes it hard to argue, since apparently I'm not part of the mass consciousness, to me "match" and "party" are far bigger problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinder_Box

[caster]

You have these two guys here in this scene. And one of them should be this rogue like charming villain and the other rough and tough grumpy and cunning bastard.
Their actions consist of  playing cards, some bantering, smoking a blunt of rolled tobacco and pissing in the river.
There is no action which shows them as characters they are supposed to be. You are basically telling us what they're like but not showing it at all.

Mmm. I'm showing Mars mannerisms, which do a lot to show his character. I am showing you, just not in the way you think.

I dont think so. 
You wont get away that easily mister.

I was hesitant to remind you of well known rule of writing: "Show, dont tell" but, the short story did have much more telling than showing so i figured... what the hell, you know? 

Everything feels very.... typical... in that scene, everything. And you even have a young pretty waitress there to show a bit more how roguish Mars is. And he beats girls... gets rough with them (wiggles eyebrows) ... like, thats his not so secreat fault which gives him an aura of someone "unpleasant" for realz.

But then nothing much happens, that's why i asked is it an intro into something more interesting.
I would think that if im already handling two very expected character types in fantasy setting, it would be much more interesting to show them in a "situation", even better a situation that definitely wouldn't be expected from the reader, and then let them handle it in their own ways.

Thanks, Mars is quite fun to write for. And yes, Marsuvial's background is kind of a mockery of characters like Nalia and Imoen from BG2, the noble-turned rogue or the friendly, allied thief. The whole "haha, I'm a thief, but it's cool, I steal because I'm a wild/free spirited youth!"

He also illustrates a point. Most RPGs that let you play a "rogue" or "thief" and join a "thieves guild" are a sort of sanitized, PG version of such concepts, aren't they? Pretty lame, IMO, a consequence of the age of the audience aimed for.

SoW isn't like that. You join any of the more unsavory factions, be prepared, they are not nice people. You will be expected to participate in or stand by and watch some rather nasty deeds. They are not Robin Hood and his merry men who steal only from people who deserve it and kill evil henchmen/other thieves. They aren't the cartoonish super jerks from some RPGs, but they are not pleasant people by any stretch of the imagination. Think Sopranos or Godfather. The "nicest" of them might be someone like the main character from the Shield.

I like this, though.
I just hope you wont try to make them cool characters.
Like Mars.

If it was up to me... oh crap.... now i have to write my version.
Fer christ sakes....

[Gregorus Prime]

Quit being such a pussy, Gareth. You and I both know there aren't nearly enough instances of the word "fuck" in that revised version.

Now sit your ass down and fucking do it fucking properly this fucking time.

[Ellorien]

Writing - The Coral - The Dark & Gritty version

 

Writing - The Coral - As written by Gareth, writing as Vince, writing as Gareth

  

That was hilarious, guys.

Yes, t'was dark and gritty alright.   But was it mature(tm)?

I hope Gareth would forgive me for enhancing his masterpiece a bit. First, the 'original' piece:

Discarding a match, he then inhaled slowly, drawing tobacco smoke deep into his lungs, then turned and stared along the wharf at the colored lanterns strung around the Summer Breeze, Jhendal’s ship. The sounds of laughter and music could be heard on the wind, Jhendal was hosting another of his parties. Ignoring all this, Hobbe walked to the edge of the wharf, unlaced his trousers and, with a groan of relief, began urinating into the murky waters below. Without stopping, he called back over his shoulder “What now, Mars? Don't tell me you fucking dragged me out tonight just to play some fucking cards. If you did I'm going to fucking beat you fucking senseless. Because I'm super badass and frightened of no one."

Marsuvial’s gaze lingered on the Breeze for another moment before he turned and looked at his companion. “We’ve got some business to take care of in the city. Jhendal’s orders, we’re to do it while they’re all at his party. Come on, let’s be quick about it.”

"You're the fucking boss man, master Mars." Master Mars didn't have to see in the dark to know that Hobbe was grinning again. "One day, Hobbe. One day", he said quietly, tears welling in the corner of his eyes, before flicking his half-smoked blunt to the cobbles. The blunt reminded Mars of his skateboard, which he'd left back at his mom's flat and would soon ride around the skate park, before going out and spraying graffiti on walls. West side gangsters foreva', yo.

Now, the enhanced...



Writing - The Coral - The Mature Version (Parental Discretion Advised)

...Ignoring all this, Hobbe walked to the edge of the wharf, unlaced his trousers and, with a groan of relief, began urinating into the murky waters below. Without stopping, he called back over his shoulder “What now, Mars? Don't tell me you fucking dragged me out tonight just to play some fucking cards. If you did I'm going to fucking beat you fucking senseless. Because I'm super badass and frightened of no one."

Marsuvial’s gaze lingered on the Breeze for another moment before he turned and looked at his companion’s cock.
 “We’ve got some visitin’ of neighbors to do at seven clean fingers. Jhendal’s orders, we’re to borrow some stuffin’ while those fucking culls are at his ken. I reckon we still have a knuckle or two before we go… Let’s shadow dance behind those garbage cans, Hobbe. C’mon, chop chop.”


"You're the fucking boss man, master Mars." Master Mars didn't have to see in the dark to know that Hobbe’s hand was flashing the “West Side” sign.
"One day, Hobbe. One day", he said quietly, tears welling in the corner of his eyes, before flicking his half-smoked blunt to the cobbles and heading towards the garbage cans. The blunt reminded Mars of his skateboard, which he'd left back at his fat, ugly mama's basement and would soon ride around the skate park, before going out and spraying graffiti on walls. West side gangsters foreva', yo.

[Gareth]

Implied gay sex, that was what was missing from the story! Well done Ellorien, now the piece is truly complete!

 

[caster]

Luckily i didnt read that.

[One Wolf]

Sorry to necro this, but I finally got around to reading it.  Very good.  Complex, evocative, engrossing.  I hope some of your weekly updates will include more writing.

[Gareth]

Thanks Wolf

Writing updates are planned, though not as frequent as the dev updates. We're due for another soon.